Thursday, July 24, 2014


Macedonia

Macedonia Erects Contentious New Statue

A crane lifts a 13-meter-high bronze statue of Philip II of Macedonia, officially named "The Warrior," onto its 18-meter-high pedestal in central Skopje on May 22.
A crane lifts a 13-meter-high bronze statue of Philip II of Macedonia, officially named "The Warrior," onto its 18-meter-high pedestal in central Skopje on May 22.
A giant bronze statue of Philip of Macedon, father of Alexander the Great, has been unveiled in Skopje, a development that could cause further strains in Macedonia's relationship with neighboring Greece.

The monument was assembled close to the square where a statue of Alexander the Great was inaugurated in June 2011, provoking a furious reaction from Greece.

The 13-meter-tall statue of Philip, officially named "The Warrior," is placed on an 18-meter-tall pedestal and depicts the ruler standing with a sword in his left hand and his right fist raised toward the sky.

Both Macedonia and Greece claim Alexander the Great as their own.

Athens also refuses to accept its neighbor's use of the name Macedonia, saying this implies a territorial claim on the Greek province of the same name.

Greece has blocked Skopje's attempts to enter NATO and the European Union.

Based on reporting by AFP and AP
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by: james from: UK
May 22, 2012 18:58
lol. pathetic
In Response

by: Peter from: Sydney
May 23, 2012 12:08
Its called democracy Greeks - we can call ourselves whatever we want and we can also build whatever we want. Who the hell do you guys think you are. I guess you can only bribe so many officials ....... No more money and thus so much fear ..... Let's see what happens at the united nations general assembly in September when we request a vote on the name. Remember our country .. Not yours ... We do as we please you fanatics!



by: Selective Memory from: Canada
May 22, 2012 19:17
It seems like the former self-identifying ethnic Bulgarians of the former Yugoslav region of Vardar have forgotten their recent past ethnic identity claims.

"We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century ... We are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians" - Kiro Gligorov, former Yugoslav republic's first President, Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBB8UjOHG_8

'We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian.' - FYROM´s Ambassador to Canada Gyordan Veselinov, Ottawa Citizen Newspaper, February 24 1999

'We do not claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great.' - FYROM'S Ambassador Ljubica Acevshka, speech to US representatives in Washington on January 22 1999

"The creation of the Macedonian nation, for almost half of a century, was done in a condition of single-party dictatorship. In those times, there was no difference between science and ideology, so the “Macedonian” historiography, unopposed by anybody, comfortably performed a selection of the historic material from which the “Macedonian” identity was created. There is nothing atypical here for the process of the creation of any modern nation, except when falsification from the type of substitution of the word “Bulgarian” with the word “Macedonian” were made." (Denko Maleski, former Minister of foreign affairs of FYROM from 1991 to 1993 in an interview to FYROM newspaper Utrinski Vesnik)

etc...

"It should be noted that there is NO CONNECTION between the Macedonians of the time of Alexander the Great who were a Greek tribe and today's so-called 'macedonians' of the 'Former Yugoslav Republic of macedonia' or FYROM, who are of Slavic origin and related to BULGARIANS." - David H Levinson, 'The Encyclopaedia of Ancient Cultures' It seems like the former self-identifying ethnic Bulgarians of the former Yugoslav region of Vardar have forgotten their recent past ethnic identity claims.

"We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century ... We are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians" - Kiro Gligorov, former Yugoslav republic's first President, Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBB8UjOHG_8

'We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian.' - FYROM´s Ambassador to Canada Gyordan Veselinov, Ottawa Citizen Newspaper, February 24 1999

'We do not claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great.' - FYROM'S Ambassador Ljubica Acevshka, speech to US representatives in Washington on January 22 1999

"The creation of the Macedonian nation, for almost half of a century, was done in a condition of single-party dictatorship. In those times, there was no difference between science and ideology, so the “Macedonian” historiography, unopposed by anybody, comfortably performed a selection of the historic material from which the “Macedonian” identity was created. There is nothing atypical here for the process of the creation of any modern nation, except when falsification from the type of substitution of the word “Bulgarian” with the word “Macedonian” were made." (Denko Maleski, former Minister of foreign affairs of FYROM from 1991 to 1993 in an interview to FYROM newspaper Utrinski Vesnik)

etc...

"It should be noted that there is NO CONNECTION between the Macedonians of the time of Alexander the Great who were a Greek tribe and today's so-called 'macedonians' of the 'Former Yugoslav Republic of macedonia' or FYROM, who are of Slavic origin and related to BULGARIANS." - David H Levinson, 'The Encyclopaedia of Ancient Cultures'
In Response

by: Camel Anaturk from: Kurdistan
May 22, 2012 20:35
After almost 70 years of communist misrule in Bulgaria the word bulgarian has become a dirty word as in the greek vulgar bulgar anti-bulgarian slogan.It is no surprise that the macedonians,although slav and proto bulgarian in origin want to distance themselves from their bulgar motherland,stealing from neighbouring cultures,but I think that instead of all the statues they have built in the center of Skopje they should have built just one statue of a donkey as their pardners in azerbaybaydjan did-then they can follow the azeri`s example again-by bringing down the statue of the donkey with one of a wild pig,pardon of Gay dar Gayliev,but the serbs have already done that with no cost to the serb taxpayer.So,let them build any statues they want as a cure for their inferiority complexes-the albanians with the help of the democratic west will soon include them in their new-fangled Druglands as material for human organs trafficking ,so lets sip another cup of slivovitsa and prepecenitsa and enjoy the march of human progress in the region!!!
In Response

by: Peter from: Canada
May 24, 2012 22:54
First of all,there is no proto-Bulgarians.The proto Macedonians occupied this area long before the Tatars arrived in todays Bulgaria.
What is with you Greeks and Bulgarians,are obsessed with Macedonia,or you don't know who realy are you?
The so-called father of Bulgarian history Bozhidar just reasontly suggested that the Bulgarians might have come to this area from Bahtria-Persia.Make-up your minds,stop acting like the Greeks who have absolutly no connection to the ancient Hellens,let along to the ancient Macedonians.

Look,in 1925 the Greek high ranking representative spelled it out to you and the Serbs,that the Macedonians have no connection to you nor the Greeks by etnicity,language or culture.
For the Greeks,Isocrates told you;Macedonians are not Hellens,period.

It is obviouse,neither of you know your history.What you claim is a political ploy to hold on to our illigaly aquired Macedonian land,not because it belongs to you.If it belonged to you,you would have been in war over our land.I quess,it is no use telling you,you don't even understand your own history.Read what Adams said in 1783.Now,when did you become a nation?
In Response

by: Peter from: Canada
May 22, 2012 23:52
Modern Greeks are forgeting one very importent fact,and that is;Alexander the Great was not Greek,he was a Macedonian.Furtheremore,in 338 bc there was no nation called Greece.Philip fought the City States,not "Greece".Statements by Greeks bring me in to the following conclusion;
US wanted Macedonia independent back in 1783.
"The project of setting at liberty the whole country of ancient Greece,Macedonia and Illyricum,and erecting independent Republics in those famous seats,however splendid it may appear in speculation,is not likly to be seriously entertained by the two Empires,because it is impracticable.The Greeks of this day,although they are said to have imagination and ingenuity,are corrupted in their morals to such a degree,as to be a faithless,perfidious race,destitute of courage,as well as of those principals of honor and virtue,without which nations can have no confidence in one another,nor be trusted by others."
John Adams,one of US the founding fathers,in a statement written back on July 14th 1783 to the first US State Secretary Robert Livingston,clearly states he wanted to see Macedonia as well as Greece independent from Ottoman rule.

Unfortunatly for some Balkan nations(including Macedonia),it was the French,Prussians(Germany) who decided who gets independence.

The US president was well aware the French and Germens were pushing their own agenda on the Balkans.

Adams then goes on to describe the Greeks as people...230 years later they are still described in the same way,"corrupted in their morals to such a degree,as to be faithless,perfidious race,destitute of courage..."

Adams statement even today in the 21st century reflects the Greek faithless,perfidious people of no courage!
Greeks are forgetfull,who made them a nation of 65%Albanian population back in 1832-34.

The president of Afganistan at an interview on CNN stated"No one has the right to tell a nation to change its constitution"
In the history of the World,Greece asked the Republic of Macedonia to change its name because Greece is in fact occupying part of Macedonia since 1913 that France and Germany estsblished it.Greeces history was written by an Austrian Prince who wanted to glorify himself by an ancient history that did not even beloged to the modern Greek.
Prince Otto was installed by France.
Republic of Macedonia has every bit of right to errect our ancient Kings and heros,they belong to the Macedonian people,not Greece.
Here is a challenge to any Greek;Lets check our DNA with the remains of ancient Macedonian Tombs,and see who's DNA matches.

In Response

by: mitsos from: greece
May 23, 2012 11:16
; PETER FROM CANADA @Alexander the Great was not Greek,he was a Macedonian!!! hahaha ! and Periklis was athenian and Leonidas was spartan what's the difference ?weren't greeks ? you live in canada so why don't you open canadian history books to get answers if the ancient macedonians were a Greek tribe or something else ,may be slavs as you are or maybe they were speaking a bulgarian dialect as you ???if the macedonians weren't greeks in the same way the athenians ,spartans, korinthians , thessalians should not be Greeks ,but the most laughable is your "quote" "in 338 bc there was no nation called Greece".ofcourse Greece is not name for the nation but the geographical name of our country from antiquity until now ,our nation was always be called greek nation (Ελλήνων γένος) ellinon genus .Alexander the first king of macedon said to Athenians before the battle of Plateon in 479 bc" i am HELLIN (Greek) by genus the ancient .....and i don't want to see HELLAS (Greece) enslaved (to persians).....Herodotus! !!!,A second laughable claim is that the ancient macedons fought with greek city states thus they are not greeks !!!.the athenians fought for more than 40 years with athenians and all the greek city states fought each others in antiquity for domination over the ancient greek world ..3th childish claim .US wanted Macedonia independent back in 1783. why not ??in this era it was under ottomans and had many ethnic such as greeks albanians bulgarians serbs ect but no nation with name macedonian hahaha no such nation has ever been recorded in ottoman's archives ...so when you post in world's forums firstly you must open books from eminent historians and try to understand them and dont copy from "united macedonia" diaspora propaganda texts .
In Response

by: mitsos from: greece
May 23, 2012 11:37
Greeks are forgetfull,who made them a nation of 65%Albanian population back in 1832-34. who made you a nation? Tito in 1945? because such nation never existed before if we are 65%albanians why do we speak greek language not related to albanian at all ? and if you are not bulgarians as you claim why your language is akin to bulgarian.? @Greece is in fact occupying part of Macedonia since 1913 !!!!@ if this is yours official political consideration then you must say openly that your country do not want to live in peace with greece but wants new war in balkan
In Response

by: MITSOS from: greece
May 23, 2012 11:56
@Here is a challenge to any Greek;Lets check our DNA with the remains of ancient Macedonian Tombs,and see who's DNA matches.@ Oh !!!my god, sorry but if this is not a joke ,then this man should have lunacy problem . but thank to him because the civilized people can see how dangerous are these people brainwashed by fanatism and illusions
In Response

by: Peter from: Canada
May 24, 2012 00:42
Only an uneducated person would say"the Macedonians are Bulgarians or Greek".
My first suggestion for my good Greek friends is;look in the mirror,ask yourself,what is my ethnicity,am I an Albanian,Turk,Roma or Vlahos?The question of antiquity is out of the question,you have absolutly no connection my friends!
Greeks are living a myth.The reason Greece has adopted the Macedonian history is;you have no connection to the people of the City States.Furthermore,your claim of Macedonia being Greek as per your claim is,your history came to existance in 1934.Your language came to existance in 1856-58.This date you must remember,it is a date you started to learn this modern Greek language.Every person from birth to end of life had to learn this new language"dimotiki glossa".In 1856-58 the main language was the Albanian.Yet two years ago the Greek army was singing;"Albanians and Macedonians,we will make clothes from your skins".Really?
Why than you claim that the Macedonians are Greek?
Once more,Adams was right to say"Greeks are corrupted intheir morals to such a degree,as to be faithless,perfidious race,destitute of courage"..Ouch!
Out of 57 Greek Prime Ministers,27 were Albanians,even today the president Papulias(Sulaiman)original name from Epirus only 1km south of todays Albania.When the army was singing the mentioned song,Papulias must have been very proud in Athens!
"corrupted in their morals to such a degree,as to be faithless,perfidious race,destitute of courage fits right on!
In Response

by: Kristijan from: Australia
May 24, 2012 01:54
The population of Modern Macedonia at the turn of the century was made up of these so called slavs. They are the decendents of the people before them in that land thats black and white. What Greeks wont tell you is that about half the population is not Greek and that over the last 100 years these peoples names have been changed to sound greek.

I had Greek friends growing up that are from Macedonia not a turkish greek refugees which make up a large percentage of the population of southern Macedonia today or a Greeks fom Athens, they all knew the truth and we were friends.

After 1990 the Greek government started a propaganda war to call them selfs Macedoniains not becuase its true but because they are paranoid about losing sotuhern Macedonia? The greeks allready forced out most of the Macedonains, they put Macedonian preists in jail, the forced the macedonain names to be chaged to sound greek, they painted over 1000 year old frescos in Macedonain churches...whats their fear..their fear is that they know we are the Real Macedonians otherwise they would have no fear.

by: History buff from: North America
May 22, 2012 20:04
FYROM's Bulgarians are brainwashed in school from K to HS. While the land Area of FYROM was truly indeed a part of Ancient Macedonian, the Bulgarians that now call themselves Macedonian were not. In fact there was no slavs at all in the balkans during Ancient Macedonia. The ancestors of the Albanians the Illyrians and Dardanians on the otherhand have a much better shot at claiming at least some Ancient Macedonian bloodlines. Because during the Illyrian - Macedonian wars there was a lot of rape and pillage by both sides. First when the Illyrians defeated the Macedonians and when they were eventually defeated and joined forces with the Macedonians to eventually march into Greece itself. As for the Greeks claim? Total bogus as well. The Greeks just recently renamed their Northern province Macedonia to counter FYROM. Up to then, they had tried to remove all existence of Macedonian, even as far as changing street names. If Macedonia was Greek then why did Macedonia have to invade Greece with Illyrian and Macedonian troops? Its obvious Macedonia was a separate people, and just becuase the believed in the same Gods means nothing, Are all Christian nations the same people? I think not.
In Response

by: Peter from: Canada
May 23, 2012 15:25
To my good Greek friends who can't get grip with the truth!

Mario Alinei,Dean Emiritus of the University of Utrecht,director of several linguistic reviews and progenitor of the "Continuity Theory"states;

"I have to commence by clearing one of the most absurd consequences of the traditional chronology namely,that of the arrival of the Slaves into the immense area in which they now live.
The only logical conclusion can be that the southern branch of the Slavs is the oldest and that from it developed the Slavic Western and Eastern branches...Today only a minority of experts support the theory of a late migration of the Slavs.

Recent genetic studies conducted by Oxford University reveal that todays ethnic Macedonians carry only 15.2% of the Slav gene,slightly above modern Greeks and Albanians and less than Serbs and Bulgarians!
They further reveal that todays ethnic Macedonians have the highest amount of the Mediterranean gene of all European people!
This was also confirmed by the University of Madrid studies.In a court of Law,it is genetic proof that is conclusive,I might add!

Here is a suggestion for the Greeks,how about DNA tests on the remains of the Royal Macedonian Tombs,uncovered and desecrated by"Greeks"in todays occupied Macedonia?
Follow this up with genetic tests on modern Greek and Macedonian population...we will soon see the truth!

Further,there is no pure Slav people...just like there is no pure"Greek."

In summation...Ethnic,yes todaysEthnic Macedonians cannot possibly be of the old Mediterean stratum if they were Slavs arriving in the Balkans in 6th century AD...as the 19th century Western construct asserts!!.To be continued...
In Response

by: Peter from: Canada
May 23, 2012 15:53
Continue..."Todays ethnic Macedonians are authocthonous to Macedonia,it is very simple!Their language,unintelligable to the ancient Greeks,was a form of proto Macedonian/slav,which then spread otward,becoming more complex as it moved further away from Macedonia.Countless proto Macedonian letters unearthed on the territory of the Republic of Macedonia(and no doubt in Pirin and Aegean Macedonia,though the respective occupiers have no doubt concealed them from the world because it does not fit...their lies)attest to this fact!

The Treaty of Serves on August 10th,1920 which Greece signed,Articles 7,8 and 9,Greek government was to undertake certain obligations regarding"the protection of the non-Greek national minorities in Greece.These Articles specifically stated free use of languages and education.On March 1925 the League of Nations directed Greece to fulfill its obligations.By May 1925 Greece printed the Abecedar that was to be used by Macedonian children in Macedonian schools which were yet to open in Aegean Macedonia.The most significant thing has happened when the Greek high government representative at the League of Nations Vasilis Dendramis responded to the Serbs and Bulgarians by defending the Macedonian language as being"Neither Bulgarian,nor Serbian but an independent language.He listed various linguists and linguistic maps as evidence to support his claim of the independence of the Macedonian language.He not only recognized the existance of the Macedonian identity,but openly defended and supported it.
-
In 1995,Mitsotakis at an interview for the T.Skinalis book "For the name of Macedonia""I have no problem with the name of the country,my problem is how to recognize the Macedonian minority in Greece".
I trust,you guys are educated enough,do your own research,maybe one of you can interview the former PM Mitsotakis.Check what PM Ralis said at an interview for the "New York Times"in 1903.
In Response

by: Peter from: Canada
May 24, 2012 01:10
In 1925 the Greek high representative at the League of Nations stated"The Macedonian language is neither Serbian nor Bulgarian,it is independent language"
He also recognized the Macedonian ethnicity,that was Vasilis Dendramis.Yet some of you"hondro kefala"can't get it through your heads.No wonder you keep stealing our Macedonian history.
Hey,the whole World knows who you are,stop pretending to be someone you are not!The Macedonian people fought againts the nazis while Greece was on the side of the nazis.You jail Greek heros,like Kolokotroni,Manolis Glezos and those who fought the nazis.Why on October 1946 ELAS was formed?Don't just blaim the communists.They fought the pro nazi government of Greece.
If you would like some more information on this subject,Ill be more than glad to comment on.

by: Victor from: USA
May 22, 2012 22:27
Instead of being annoyed, the Greeks should be proud. As long as there are no claims to anything concrete in or from Greece, why should they be so angry?

by: Chris T from: FTPOY
May 22, 2012 23:56
Nice statue! I love it.

Macedonia is much, much older than Greece, which pisses the Greeks off to no end. Greek rule over only part of Macedonia began in 1913, everyone knows that. Egej was never Greek before then, and it still isn't Greek now, it's full of unrecognized minorities, including Macedonians, Aromanians and Albanians, who are terrorized into obeying the edicts of Greek fascism. As for the Slavs, it's true they migrated, but they didn't stop at Macedonia! They went all the way down to Peloponessos, there's just as much Slavic in Greeks as there is in Macedonians and other modern ethnic groups. It is true that the modern Macedonians eventually adopted a Slavic language, and it is true that the modern Greeks adopted Albanian and Turkish. Then, in the 1800s, they had to learn "modern Greek" from Classicists sent by their new Bavarian King, a language ancient Greeks wouldn't understand.

All the world knows that the Greek government lies, and they're good liars. They mix a few elements of truth in to make the lies believable, but you can't put lipstick on a pig, and eventually the truth is know. Greece should mind its own business, their country is burning, and all they can do is obsess about the real Macedonians, and what statues they like to build.

(FTPOY = former Turkish province of Yunanistan)

Long Live Macedonia! Greeks, turn off the computer and get a job

by: Baller from: Macedonia
May 23, 2012 01:39
What r these people from the former republic of turkey talking about :S dont they know that researched showed that slavs are descendants from the venneti people. The same people that research found that the ancient Macedonians were. The venneti's were just coming back home. Scientific research also found that greeks have no connection to the ancient Macedonians and ancient greeks dissapeared a long time ago. Now it's just turks, gypsies and other races all mixed. Huh talk about a confused identity. Get a life and a clue fools.

by: Tomas from: Tallahassee
May 23, 2012 04:08
You have to realize that we are not our government but also I must say I feel embarrassed that Macedonians are more impressed by shiny objects than by any honest attempt to improve the life standard in the country (which we have complete lack of). The political agenda of the country has become contradicting and for that matter, counterproductive.
Realistically speaking, the region has endured a few thousand years of mixing between the various populations. It is not absurd to say that some Macedonians are descendants of both Ancient Greeks and Macedons but to make such ludicrous claims...well...it is quite plain retarded. The citizens are so petty and ignorant, and I have come to the conclusion that 6 years of history being taught in public schools perhaps may not be enough.for the following generations.

by: ante from: Croatia
May 23, 2012 09:31
I'm proud of you Makedonia, that shall remind Greeks to pay their debt for all time to come :3

by: mitsos from: greece
May 23, 2012 12:54
the ancient statues are the same things as the colored stones the spanish colonists were giving to poor indians in order to trick them the last 6 years history falsification system in FYROM which is guided primary from the slavic diaspora ,with many options for the regional history as they desire, even dna test are used as a prove for their "ancient" heritage this effort is to transform the consience of slavs into "ancient macedonian" !!this paranoia has made a deep gap among ordinary people in balkans there is no room for common understanding . the conflict is a matter of time the civilized world must not be in silence but must see this cultural crime

by: whomever from: usa
May 23, 2012 17:53
This is funny. The Macedonian national identity seems very confused. Does the past even matter? It seems to me that Macedonians are in a position where the best choice is to just make a new future identity. They live in a blood-soaked region full of past glory and present misery. I think if they are given a unique opportunity for a fresh start, and they should take it.

In another Macedonian thread the word "Skopians" was used as a perjorative. I like this word, if I was in charge I would just take it and run with it. Call the people Skopians, name the country Skopje, and make something new. Something fresh with no ties to the past, that nobody can dispute, and no outsider can control.

And control is an issue. "FRYOM" because Greece said so at the UN? That's shameful. A country doesn't need a connection to the past to be a good country, but it does need to never be screwed with by its neighbors! Greece is a problem? Bulgaria is a problem? Albania is a problem? Macedonia is the black sheep of the family. Do what black sheep do, and break away.

Break away from the name, break away from the flag, break away from the religions, break away from the past. Just abandon it all and start over. (and then annex Greek Macedonia and call it "Greater Skopje", mocking the local nationalists)

:) just an opinion
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