Saturday, May 26, 2012


The Power Vertical

The Yalta Syndrome And Its Critics

A Russian checkpoint on the Russian-Georgian border crossing at Upper Lars.
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TBILISI -- Apprehensions about Moscow are never very far from the surface in Georgia’s scruffy, chaotic, and charming capital city.

When Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili cast his vote in Tbilisi in municipal elections on May 31, he pointedly said that his government's real adversaries were not the Georgian opposition, but the Russian forces based in breakaway Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

When the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe issued a somewhat critical report about those elections, some Georgians openly wondered whether Moscow’s influence was at work.

And when reports surfaced out of Brussels that the European Union was considering pulling its special envoys from the South Caucasus and Moldova, many Georgians warily noted that the move came ahead of a highly anticipated Russian-EU summit. Was this a gift to Moscow? Were the Eurocrats tossing Georgia under the bus as they pursued closer ties with the Kremlin?

The fears are understandable. Russian troops sit just 30 kilometers from Tbilisi. Regime change remains Moscow’s official policy here. And the Kremlin has long been clearly uncomfortable with Georgian sovereignty.

The biggest source of apprehension, of course, is U.S. President Barack Obama’s reset policy with Russia and what it might mean for Georgia’s future.

When Obama resubmitted the “123” nuclear cooperation agreement with Russia to Congress for ratification last month (former President George W. Bush withdrew the agreement following Russia’s August 2008 invasion of Georgia), that apprehension went into overdrive – and not just in Georgia.

In an op-ed published in the Washington Post on May 15, David Kramer, who served as deputy assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian affairs in George W. Bush's administration, wrote that the Obama administration was moving from a “Russia first” approach to a “Russia only” approach.

"Obama and other senior U.S. officials have repeatedly said they do not recognize a Russian 'sphere of influence,' but actions, or non-actions, speak louder than those words," Kramer wrote. "Through its neglect of countries in the region except for Russia, the administration is ceding to Moscow exactly such a sphere."

While on a reporting trip to Tbilisi, I asked a couple of the smarter Georgian foreign policy thinkers – and players – if they really feared the new U.S. posture toward Moscow would harm Tbilisi's interests. And what I found was that the people who are – or have been --actually responsible for Georgia's security are much more at ease with the reset policy than all the noise suggests. Among people in the know, the Yalta Syndrome in Tbilisi is greatly exaggerated.

"I fundamentally disagree with this analysis" that Washington is abandoning Tbilisi, Georgia’s Deputy Foreign Minister Giga Bokeria told me. "There has been no shift in the administration's policy. We know they have a reset with Russia and they have important issues to be discussed with Russia. But there has never been any point for us in the process where Georgia's sovereignty and security was not highlighted."

Bokeria’s actual power and influence in Georgia are far greater than his official title suggests (he is one of Saakashvili’s closest confidants). He added that the U.S. administration was instrumental in calming things down during the tense summer of 2009, when many analysts feared armed conflict would resume:

When the situation was very critical, during President Obama's visit to Moscow, he made a very concentrated effort to be more than clear about the United States' position with respect to Georgia's sovereignty. That message is very important for stability. When the situation was the most dangerous, in the summer of 2009, when the Russian Defense Ministry made openly clear statements about intentions to use force against the Georgian threat, whatever that was, President Obama called President Medvedev to highlight the importance of the issue for the United States and the region. That was the most important thing. What we heard in public from President Obama in the summer, when the situation was very tense, had a very important effect on stability. I am not saying the problem is over. The occupation continues, the ethnic cleansing is not reversed, Russia does not accept our sovereignty, they want to dominate their so-called spheres of influence, but the immediate danger of a large scale attack by Russia has been -- if not completely eradicated -- significantly reduced by a very active position by the U.S. administration.
 
Likewise, opposition leader Irakli Alasania, who served as Georgia’s ambassador to the United Nations during the war with Russia, told me that better U.S.-Russian ties actually make Georgia safer. Alasania, who won plaudits for his calming presence during the August 2008 conflict, says Tbilisi needs Washington to be engaged with Moscow so Georgia can eventually normalize its own relations with Russia on a more equal footing:

I do strongly believe that if the US-Russian relations expand and become closer, it will only benefit Georgia. We have enormous security problems, especially after August 2008, and we will not cope with these problems alone. At this point what we can do, just to not solicit any more aggressive behavior from Russia, is to keep things quiet and resolve the problems that were not resolved by the war. We need strong partners and we need our main strategic partner [the United States] to have good relations with the Russian Federation. This is why I also believe that to the extent that there are better ties between the Russian Federation, the European Union, and the United States, it will make the prospects of resolving these problems better. This is why I do believe that there is no threat in Russian-U.S. rapprochement. I strongly believe that there is no way that Georgian state interests, Georgian democracy, or Georgian territorial integrity will be sacrificed in that relationship.

As I have written here -- and blogged here -- it apparently was not just Obama’s public statements regarding Georgia, but also his private conversations with Medvedev and Putin, that persuaded Moscow to back off from another conflict. As I have blogged here, Obama’s chief Russia advisor Michael McFaul has long argued that Washington can more effectively influence Moscow’s behavior when it is engaged and has a broad bilateral agenda with the Kremlin. The considerable de-escalation of tensions we have seen in the south Caucasus can now be called Exhibit A.
 
Fear of Russia remains strong in Tbilisi. But for cooler heads – and I consider Bokeria and Alasania to be two of the coolest heads in Tbilisi – Obama's reset with Moscow is a lot less frightening than all the alarmist punditry suggests.

I'm working on a feature-length article on this topic, so stay tuned.

-- Brian Whitmore
 

Tags: reset , United States , Georgia , Russia

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by: Konstantin from: Los Angeles
June 04, 2010 07:56
The Russian "samodur" despotic and lying danceling replace the truth.
They forged chain of lies since 1954-56 - including "Yalta Sindrom",
Implying "Spheres of Influence" - Stalin never wanted, crooks!
In his "Postdam" speach he blaimed it on Russian hams.

It was dancing of Molotov on Robentop - treasonous dope
And as Ivanov on NATO Secretary - around World Gloobe,
Hidiously instigating - by Russian hunger for expansion.
Even nazi and NATO leaders were in shame, blashing!

Alasania-like wisdom of defeit already lost Shida Kartly.
How far will Georgia go, accepting a crooked language?
Not "Spherees Of Influence" - regional common welthes
Through whole Euro-Asia, without "samodur's" laggage!

Konstantin.



by: Catherine Fitzpatrick from: New York, NY
June 05, 2010 02:09
Well, reset is as reset does. I'm not completely buying your thesis here. For one, I think many people overestimate America's power actually to influence situations where the U.S. really doesn't have the leverage. So there's a bit of magical thinking here -- moreover, I think the Georgians interviewed would like to credit the U.S. for something good so that they remain relevant, even when other Georgians are feeling abandoned.

It's good if the U.S. tries to engage Russia. But that "broad engagement" isn't of much value if it never really produces anything. If the U.S. witholds public criticism and keeps critiques private, there is no way to validate what the small independent press and independent intelligentsia is saying about grave human rights and economic problems in Russia.

You would know better about Georgia, having gone there recently and reported on these interesting "cooler heads". But looking at it across the region, and historically, I'm afraid that I conclude that even when Russia is "better," and more secure, and less aggressive with its neighbours, not everything gets fixed as you would think it would. Certainly when Russia was "better," the independence of Belarus did not get secured. It's a complex and changing system.

And at the end of the day, there is still this, as Bokeria says:

"I am not saying the problem is over. The occupation continues, the ethnic cleansing is not reversed, Russia does not accept our sovereignty, they want to dominate their so-called spheres of influence..."

The Russian passports were long ago handed out; the autonomous breakaway republics now have their independence acknowledged. Even a "regime change" might not bring a "reset" of Russian-Georgian relations. It's the old story of whether the glasnost' is half empty or half full.

The story is not over yet, and I think what you should do in your feature-length piece is decide what the benchmarks really are for declaring thsy Russian interference in, and pressure on Georgia are substantively "over".
In Response

by: BS Buster
June 06, 2010 05:35
The disrespecting of UNSCR 1244 comes to mind.

After an imperfect but negotiated agreement to end fighting, Serbia hasn't launched military action in Kosovo.

This contrasts from the armed Georgian government action in 2008 - which came after an imperfect but negotiated agreement to end the fighting of the last decade.

The Russian independence recognition of South Ossetia and Abkhazia came shortly after the Georgian government strike on South Ossetia..

Had there been no Georgian government strike, it's not certain that Russia would've recognized the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

In Response

by: Andrew from: Tbilisi
June 14, 2010 08:46
More BS from "BS Master"

Obviously he has forgotten the fact that several months prior to the heavy fighting breaking out in August, that the Russian government unilaterally withdrew from CIS sanctions against Abkhazia, and proceeded to implement a policy of recognition, including the establishment of consular representatives in the breakaway regions, and of encouraging investment in the breakaway regions in direct contravention of it's obligations as "peace keepers" and signatories to the Sochi agreements.

Then there is the Russian provision of arms and training to the separatists in the original wars, and in the decade leading up to the 2008 war, the mass conferral of Russian passports and the appointment of Russian security personnel to positions of authority in the separatist administrations.

Russia was always going to recognise Abkhazia & South Ossetia (in a most hypocritical manner given its own actions against separatists in the North Caucasus one might add).

Russia had been for some considerable length of time been carrying out a defacto policy of ethnic division and recognition of separatism.

Russia is also directly responsible for ethnic cleansing in both territories.

In Response

by: BS Buster
June 15, 2010 07:59
Nonsense from someone expressing Georgian nationalist nonsense.

Building up a presence in disputed lands doesn't automotically equate into recognizing such territories as independent states.

The referred to Russian recognition only came after the Georgian government strike on South Ossetia. Up to that point as well as shortly thereafter, Kremlin connected Russian foreign policy wonks weren't anticipating the recognition which came about.

The idea that Georgian nationalists are innocent of violent acts is a perversion of reality.
In Response

by: Andrew from: Tbilisi
June 17, 2010 06:10
Now BS Master,

Where did I express "Georgian Nationalist nonsense", not being a Georgian myself, only living and working there.....

Russia was threatening to recognise Abkhazia and South Ossetia as a response to the recognition of Kosovo by the US and many EU members, or did you forget that part.

As for this particular piece of BS from you:

"Building up a presence in disputed lands doesn't automotically equate into recognizing such territories as independent states"

When that "building up of presence" consists of intergovernmental relations, the appointment of serving Russian security personnel to positions of authority in separatist governments, economic aid, investment, and the arming, training, and in several cases leading, of separatist military formations both in peace and war, the support for ethnic cleansing by separatists, and the deliberate derailment of any attempt to find a diplomatic solution, all of which were done by Russia, then its policy does point towards recognition both de facto and de jure, of the separatist enclaves.

Why was Russia the ONLY country in the world to recognise the Abkhazian parliamentary elections in 2007, describing them as "free and fair" despite the fact that ethnic Georgians, particularly those in Gali (where they make up 90% of the popluation) were barred from voting?

Sounds like de facto recognition to me.

And Russia was definitely threatening to recognise Abkhazia and South Ossetia prior to the August war.


In Response

by: Andrew from: Tbilisi
June 17, 2010 06:11
February 16, 2008 New York Times

, Saturday Late Edition--Final
Section A Page 3
Desk: Foreign Desk Length: 632 words/>/>

Russia Warns It May Back Breakaway Republics in Georgia

By C. J. CHIVERS

MOSCOW--Russia held a high-level meeting with the leaders of two breakaway republics in Georgia on Friday, and vowed to increase its support for the separatists if Kosovo declared its independence and was recognized by the West.

The meeting, coupled with vocal warnings in Russia's Parliament that it would react strongly to a declaration of independence by Kosovo, threatened to push the Kremlin and the West into a fresh and potentially volatile standoff over the status of separatist territories in Georgia.

Kosovo is expected within days to declare its independence from Serbia, Russia's traditional ally.

The Kremlin has long objected to the move, and even threatened to retaliate by recognizing Abkhazia and South Ossetia, two breakaway regions it supports inside Georgia's internationally recognized borders, as independent states.

Russia has in the past several years granted Russian citizenship to almost all residents in the separatist enclaves. In anticipation of further engagement with the regions, Sergey V. Lavrov, Russia's foreign minister, met here with the presidents of the regions' de facto governments.

Mr. Lavrov then issued a stern but vague statement saying Russia was prepared to expand its case diplomatically in the days ahead. ''The declaration and recognition of Kosovar independence will make Russia adjust its line toward Abkhazia and South Ossetia,'' he said in a statement.

Increasing financial assistance is among the steps Russia might take, he said.

Abkhazia and South Ossetia border Russia along the Caucasus ridge, and broke from Georgia after brief wars in the early 1990s. Their status has simmered as a source of contention and ethnic tension in the years since.

Both regions have declared self-rule, but in fact are managed as Russian protectorates. The standoffs, labeled ''frozen conflicts,'' have been sources of unsuccessful international mediation and worries of renewed fighting.

Georgia in recent years has strongly protested the Russian support, accusing the Kremlin of hypocrisy.

It has noted that Russia has supported separatists inside Georgia while holding Russia's own sovereignty inviolable and waging a bitter war and counterinsurgency against separatists on the other side of the Caucasus ridge, in Chechnya.

The military, diplomatic and public relations campaigns in the region have all the while been layered with intrigue.
In Response

by: BS Buster
June 18, 2010 21:04
Nothing you've posted disproves what I said. The

- recognition of Kosovo's independence by some

- Abkhaz and South Ossetian desire to be separate from Georgia

- Georgian government strike on South Ossetia

are the three main contributing factors for the discussed Russian independence recognition. The ultimate kicker was IMO the Georgian government strike on South ossetia.

I'm looking at this in a matter of fact analytical kind of way. What I've expressed doesn't be default mean that I agree with the Russian diplomatic move.

From the point of view of Russia's best interests, there's a basis for being against the independence recognition of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
In Response

by: BS Buster
June 19, 2010 05:11
Adding onto my last set of submitted comments, note that Russia doesn't recognize the independence of Kosovo, Transnistria and Nagorno-Karabakh.

Like South Ossetia and Abkhazia, the aforementioned territories saw war in the last decade. Since then, Serbia, Moldova and Armenia haven't engaged in any military activity in relation to the disputed lands in question.

This behavior contrasts with how the Georgian government acted in 2008.


by: Catherine Fitzpatrick from: New York NY
June 05, 2010 07:33
I think you have to look at the mounting critique of the McFaul approach that not only I have been articulating:

http://3dblogger.typepad.com/minding_russia/2010/06/sins-of-commission.html

(and Russian press linked there)

but now also Simon Shuster of Time online:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100605/wl_time/08599199410100

The reset isn't working as planned because the Russians aren't sincere, and we aren't robust enough in our critique of Russia to add credibility to our own admission of human rights sins.
In Response

by: BS Buster
June 06, 2010 05:26
"The Russians aren't sincere" as if to suggest that you're more sincere.

BS!
In Response

by: Anonymous from: USA
June 07, 2010 03:56
What's the problem BS?

Neither country is sincere. Both US and Russia violate human rights...BUT, Russia is far worse at human rights violations than the USA is. Understand that the United States is not sending out police to beat up every protester that is unhappy with Obama. There is now a bill in the Duma that will give police duties directly to the FSB! If it passes, the NKVD will basically be brought back to life. Who introduced such a draconian new bill?......Vladimir Putin.
Oh BTW, please don't try to bring up Iraq and Afgan wars, accidental civilian casualties in combat are not the same as arresting people for picketing in the street. I was against the Iraq war, but even I understand that it was not the US military's desire to kill women and children. I know plenty of military people, and they are not bloodthirsty, they have wives and children of their own. As far as Georgia is concerned, I expect a full annexation by Russia on the pretext that giving them sovereignty would allow them to be reinvaded by Georgia. The Russians have already said in their own statements that "Georgia doesn't deserve Abkazia and S. Ossetia". Their logic is, if they can't be independent from Georgia, than they will have to become part of Russia.
In Response

by: BS Buster
June 07, 2010 15:07
Anonymous

The likes of Shevchuk, Kasparov, Latynina and a host of others aren't beaten up by the Russian government.

Meantime, in Western media, one finds neolib and neocon views getting the nod over some other views which have credibility on issues like Russia.

According to your "logic," NATO is on the verge of taking over the rest of Serbia.

by: Richard from: London
June 06, 2010 12:22
The argument about the "reset" being a failure is blatently false. Russia is now about to back tougher sanctions on Iran, and nuclear disarmament with the US is on track. Russia has also opened it's territory for resupply of US forces in Afghanistan, and the two countries have come closer to agreement on a host of other important issues as well. As far as I can see, Obama has got most of what he wanted from the "reset," much to the chargrin of the old "Cold Warriors" back in Washington.
In Response

by: La Russophobe from: USA
June 10, 2010 02:22
What's false, Richard, is your own statement. Russia has combined with China to strip all the teeth out of the Iran sanctions measure, including the use of force and all the serious energy pressure:

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/un-approves-necessary-sanctions-against-iran/407986.html

Obama has been suckered by the KGB Kremlin just as Chamberlain was suckered by Hitler. Those who cannot remember history are doomed to repeat it.
In Response

by: La Russophobe from: USA
June 10, 2010 02:43
"The second development worth keeping an eye on is the Russia-Iran relationship. As Bob Kagan argued in the Washington Post two weeks ago, the administration has oversold Russia's support for a very watered-down sanctions resolution against Iran. Three times before during the Bush administration, Russia supported equally feckless resolutions. Meanwhile, just this week, Sergei Kiriyenko, the head of Russia's state nuclear entity, affirmed that the Russian-built Bushehr nuclear reactor will come on line this summer and will be run as a joint Russian-Iranian venture."

http://shadow.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/06/09/after_the_reset_button_questions_linger
In Response

by: Richard from: London
June 13, 2010 17:26
@La Russophobe

Of course, diplopmacy is the art of the possible, and these sanctions are much tougher than previous sactions, even if "watered down." Russia for instance has agreed to stop delivery of the S-300 SAM missile systems to Iran, without which Israel will have a much easier time taking out Israel's nuclear facilities. That China and Russia are actually backing tougher sanctions (and sanctions on weapon deliveries at that) I think is no small victory for Obama. Had China and Russia really wanted to, they could easily have stonewalled the new sanctions with their veto powers in the UNSC.

As for Saakashvili and Ho Chi Minh, I don't think the comparison is entirely apt. The Vietnam war took place at the height of the Cold War, and North Vietnam was allied to both the USSR and China. None of these political high stakes were true for the Georgian war. Let's face it; even if Russia had taken Tbilisi, it wouldn't have occationed almost no tangible response from the West. The US would not have pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan to fight Russia in the Caucaus, and the Europeans would not have been willing kick their habit of Russian gas. Truth is, on the geopolitical playing field, Georgia is a just a sideshow to much bigger things.

by: Richard from: London
June 06, 2010 12:53
The author also makes some interesting comments about Georgia that deserves further mention. For instance, he states that "regime change" is Russia's stated goal vis a vis Georgia, but does not explain, if this is the case, why Russia did not remove Saakashvili's regime during the war in 2008? The assertion that it was Obama who dissuaded Russia from another war in 2009 is not credible, as everyone now knows that it was Georgia that was the aggressor in the 2008 August war, and that the Russian military action was a response to this. So, unless Georgia commits another attack on Abkhazia and South Ossetia, any war in the South Caucasus involving Russia will therefore be highly unlikely.

The author also drags out the "Yalta syndrome", perhaps to for added "New Cold War" shock effect, but a more appropriate nomer for Georgia's future is "Finlandisation," something which, contrary to the arguments of the "Cold Warriors", is not such a bad thing. Yes, this means Georgia will be seriously constrained in its foreign policy and its ability to enter into alliances such as NATO, but Georgia will retain its internal sovereignty, democratic system and have a real chance of building a stable state and strong economy in the long term. However, this would also depend on Georgia giving up the claim to Abkhazia and South Ossetia, which in practice are completely and irrevocably lost to it anyway, much like Karelia is to today's Finland.
In Response

by: Rasto from: London
June 09, 2010 12:53
Dear Richard.
There are strategically important areas near Kazbegi valley and old russian military road inhabited by Ossetians. South Ossetian puppet president has alreday raised that issue with Russian leaders several times claiming these territpories to be Ossetian. I do not see any other way of gaining these teritories but with help of Russian army. That can easily trigger new conflict.
In Response

by: La Russophobe from: USA
June 10, 2010 02:25
Richard, you are woefully misinformed. You may as well ask, if the USA didn't want Ho Chi Minh in power, why it didn't simply remove him!!

Russia COULD NOT take out Saakashvili because Western leaders rushed to his aid. Germany's Chancellor was on the ground in Tbilisi within hours of Russia's crossing the border, and US navel forces were moving in the Black Sea. Russia back down in the face of stiff resistance, it's just that simple. Its forces were exposed as hopelessly weak (commanders reduced to communicating by cell phone) and poorly equipped, only barely able to handle Georgia's vastly smaller forces.

The tired, boring Kremlin propaganda you are repeating like a bleating sheep was discredited many months ago.
In Response

by: BS Buster
June 11, 2010 08:16
For whatever its shortcomings, the Russian armed forces took its time leaving Georgia, as it correctly took out Georgian military assets, without much of a problem.
In Response

by: Andrew from: Tbilisi
June 17, 2010 09:15
Unless of course you count the significant losses suffered by the Russian air forces, including the pinnacle of Russian strategic aviation, the TU-22M Backfire, the loss of a very large number of vehicles, and, according to the "Committee of Russian Soldiers Mothers" a much higher casualty toll than the Russian government is prepared to admit.

US Marine trainers in Georgia state that according to the information they have, the Georgians fought particularly well in Tshkinvali, and given the force ratios, particularly the massive Russian superiority in artillery, armor, and air power, not to mention around 4 to 1 ratio in manpower (not including the separatist militia and "volunteers" from Russia which raise it to around 8 to 1), and that the Georgians withdrew in good order from Tshkinvali, well you get the idea.

I guess you consider burning Georgian villages, orchards, and conducting ethnic cleansing to be "correctly taking out Georgian assets"

by: Konstantin from: Los Angeles
June 06, 2010 17:33
BS buster:

Here and everywhere Russia advocates use the Nature's flaw:
Nature's laws are not abstract math - but empirical approximation.
Trees of same kind coming in all sizes - Russians use it as a "draw":
"My truth as good as your truth!" But usually pine trees taller than birches.

As Russsian planed aggressions and genocides evil, comparing to UN,
Which ask often USA and Europe help in crises, thought USA often bully,
Provoked by Russian intrigans and their proxies, inflaiming Yanky greed,
Still US helps reinforce independence and they leave - Russian "a huli"!

Konstantin.


by: Konstantin from: Los Angeles
June 08, 2010 07:33
Is seven dworfs's lying insinuations
More convincing than one genuin truth?
Read the chronology of the Russian invasion
In August of 2008 into Georgia, Russian goose!

Read www.WorldFreedomAndTruth.info, it is clear,
Day by day cronology of Russian fire and infiltrations
Of KGB, GRU and Spetcnaz - Georgian villages squized,
58 Army moving through tunnel - since 1954-56 Russian bists
Planed Georgian genocide and ethnic Russians repopulation.

Konstantin.

by: Richard from: London
June 08, 2010 13:25
I'd rather put my faith in the EU report by Tagliavini than a cheaply designed web page run by a Georgian nationalist.
In Response

by: Rasto from: London
June 09, 2010 12:58
the EU report by Tagliavini, does not say what you have written in your previous comment. It is your interpretation. Why than you are saying you respect the report findings if you are introducing your own interpretations anyway?

by: Boris from: London
June 09, 2010 11:20
Russians just are not very civilized nation... Only language they understand is the language of force. This is true internally, as well as applied to the external policies... Why?, because they've been raised by Georgian villain named Joe Stalin, as newly refurbished Moscow metro station billboard proudly proclaims... And they deserve to be opressed by Putin and KGB... What is the cure?... the reforms... Will they be ever implemented?, not until the oil price falls to around $20 a barrel, and stais there for couple of years.... Simple as that.
In Response

by: Rasto from: London
June 10, 2010 20:07
Russian imperialistic politics is dated back to 17th century. It continued with conquering of Caucasus and genocide of nations such as Circassians
In Response

by: BS Buster
June 11, 2010 08:13
How does that compare with Americna history vis-a-vis the Indians, whose per capita numbers and culture seem to have been significantly decreased?

Contrary to some of the propaganda out there, good numbers of Russians and Circassians get along quite well.

In Response

by: Anonymous from: USA
June 11, 2010 16:07
"How does that compare with Americna history vis-a-vis the Indians, whose per capita numbers and culture seem to have been significantly decreased?"

Why is this statement relevent? It seems whenever somebody criticizes Russia, it becomes "What about America?", as if actions are made legitimate because the USA also did them. I have plenty of criticism for my own country, but that's not what these responses are about.
In Response

by: BS Buster
June 14, 2010 01:17
At issue is consistency. There're numerous examples showing a double standard. One recent example comes to mind.

Canada doesn't have a province and the US doesn't have a state primarily for their respective indigenuous people.

On the other hand, there's advocacy for the creation of a Circassian republic in Russia.

Another recent example relates to how some overly promoted crackpot babbled on about how Yanukovych dissed Russia by not recognizing the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. On the other hand, little if any emphasis is made to Yanukovych not recognizing Kosovo's independence.
In Response

by: Anonymous from: USA
June 14, 2010 15:56
"Canada doesn't have a province and the US doesn't have a state primarily for their respective indigenuous people."

Once again BS, you are not correct. Ever heard of the Canadian province of Nunavut? Oklahoma was a US Territory primarily for indigenous people until Statehood in 1906.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunavut
In Response

by: BS Buster
June 15, 2010 08:02
Nunavut isn't a Canadian province and the mentioned status of Oklahoma hasn't been such for over a hundred years.

In Response

by: Richard from: London
June 13, 2010 17:40
Georgians just are not very civilized nation... Only language they understand is the language of force. This is true internally, as well as applied to the external policies... Why?, because they've been raised by Georgian villain named Joe Stalin, as the huge statue of Stalin in Gori proudly proclaims... And they deserve to be opressed by Saakashvili and his demonstration- and media-busting police... What is the cure?... the reforms... Will they be ever implemented?, not until Saakashvili is removed, and someone saner, more democratic, and less nationalistic comes to power. However, this will not take simply a couple years, but maybe decades. (Not so) Simple as that.
In Response

by: Andrew from: Tbilisi
June 17, 2010 09:21
Really Richard, Russia is the state that worships Stalin, not Georgia.

One statue of Stalin in Gori, with over 200 in Russia, 13 of them put up during Putin's reign. Who worships him more?

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,692971,00.html

By the way, Stalin is also viewed by the Ossetians as the greatest son of the Ossetian nation, his father being of Ossetian descent, with a Georgianised last name (by adding the shvili suffix).

Have you forgotten the fact that Stalin is viewed as a great Russian? In fact the 3rd greatest Russian of all time apparently, and that a majority of Russian youth view him positively?

Your posts are becoming increasingly pathetic Richard.

by: Konstantin from: Los Angeles
June 11, 2010 04:15
Richard and Boris from London, who are you brainwashing, the Quin?
I am not a Georgian nationalist and "chronology" is reprint of reality!
Neither was Stalin, who saved World from Russia's nazi bestiality.
Whom are you trying - for Russian's crimes of centuries - to pin?
In fear of Russia bist, Russia use Stalin, it killed, as indulgenity.
Don't worry - UK pay you bread for the hired Russian imperuity.

Konstantin.
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