Wednesday, July 30, 2014


Transmission

Bosnia's Escalating War Of Words

Milorad Dodik, president of Republika Srpska (left), and Bakir Izetbegovic, Bosniak member of the Presidency of Bosnia-Herzegovina, have engaged in a worringly similar war of words to that which launched the 1992-95 war.
Milorad Dodik, president of Republika Srpska (left), and Bakir Izetbegovic, Bosniak member of the Presidency of Bosnia-Herzegovina, have engaged in a worringly similar war of words to that which launched the 1992-95 war.
Threats of secession and war and derogatory remarks about other peoples have been a staple of political rhetoric in the Balkans for the past 2 1/2 decades.

Yet the magnitude of the fallout from last week's interview Bosnian Serb President Milorad Dodik gave RFE/RL, in which he said that Bosnia-Herzegovina is a failed international experiment and that the Serbs overwhelmingly support secession, sounds ominously familiar to the build-up to the Balkan country's 1992-95 war, which claimed 100,000 lives.

First, Bakir Izetbegovic, the Bosnian Muslim, or Bosniak, member of Bosnia's three-member Presidency, on October 18 published an open letter to Dodik in which he accused him of sowing fear and a feeling of gloom with his remarks about the future of Bosnia and about Bosniaks as a self-proclaimed nation that has existed only since 1993.

Dodik has also said that Bosniaks, whose origins coincide with the arrival of the Ottoman Empire and Islam in the 15th century, and who were recognized as a nation in socialist Yugoslavia in 1974, want to dominate Bosnia and marginalize and subjugate the country's Serbs and Croats.

Izetbegovic, the son of the late Alija Izetbegovic, who led Bosnia's mainly Bosniak government throughout the war against separatist Serbs and Croats, said that what Dodik -- who was once the West's favorite Serbian politician in the Balkans, but has since turned into a hard-core nationalist -- said was detrimental to the interest of all Bosnians.

He said Dodik was largely responsible for the limbo that Bosnia finds itself in. The country, which has been stuck on its road to the European Union for the past five years, has been without a government since the general elections a year ago because Dodik is blocking the appointment of ethnic-Croatian and Serbian politicians from multiethnic parties.

"It is your policies exclusively that brought Bosnia to one of the deepest crises since Dayton," Izetbegovic said, referring to the U.S.-brokered 1995 peace agreement that split the country into two autonomous regions, the Republika Srpska and the Bosniak-Croat Federation, linked through a weak central government.

Izetbegovic also countered Dodik's claim that polls show that almost 90 percent of Bosnian Serbs favor secession from Bosnia with a warning that Dodik's words could lead "to new conflicts with unforeseeable consequences."

"It has to be clear to everyone: any attempt to put the territorial integrity of the country in danger will be met by the resistance of 100 percent patriots who are ready to defend Bosnia-Herzegovina at any moment," Izetbegovic added. "It is you, Mr. Dodik, who will bear the historic and every other responsibility if this leads to conflicts, which you have been provoking with your public statements."

The reply on October 19, albeit not coming from Dodik, was equally fierce.

Dusanka Majkic, a deputy in Bosnia's state parliament for Dodik's Alliance of Independent Social Democrats, said Izetbegovic's letter showed that Bosniaks are ready to mobilize in order to achieve domination.

Her colleague Slavko Jovicic said the Serbs would resist the creation of an Islamic state and leave Bosnia's joint institutions, just like they did in 1991, on the eve of the war, "and we will never return again."

At the time, the Serbs' leader, Radovan Karadzic, openly threatened Alija Izetbegovic -- who died eight years ago today -- and Bosnian Muslims with annihilation in a speech in parliament in October 1991 if they proceeded, together with the Croats, with plans to secede from Yugoslavia.

"Do not think that you will not lead Bosnia-Herzegovina to hell," Karadzic said. "And do not think that you will not perhaps lead the Muslim people into annihilation, because the Muslim people cannot defend themselves if there is war. How will you prevent everyone from being killed in Bosnia-Herzegovina?"

Twenty years and 100,000 dead later, Karadzic is on trial for genocide at the UN war crimes tribunal in The Hague. Dodik, once a fierce opponent, has in recent years advocated many of Karadzic's positions.

One can only hope Bosnian politicians have drawn some conclusions from his example and that the latest war of words will remain just that.

-- Nedim Dervisbegovic
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Comment Sorting
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by: PipiDugaDevetka from: Sarajevo
October 19, 2011 19:02
Milorad Dodik is Vlach. His surename in Aromanian-Vlach's language means:
''The one who came'' or ''Stranger''.
In Response

by: Dario from: Melbourne
October 19, 2011 23:05
and thats coming from a serbian muslim!!
In Response

by: PipiDugaDevetka from: Sarajevo
November 09, 2011 12:25
Serbian - muslim was my father, because he had to choose to be Croat or Serbian if he wanted to survive.

I am lucky I can say I am Bosniak without any fear.
Dodik is not a Serb, he is an Vlach.
In Response

by: Future from: Republic of Srpska
October 19, 2011 23:18
You're spamming people with nonsense. How can you translate somebody's name?!
It's not Dodik that stops development, it's SDP party and their leader Zlatko Lagumdzija.
But since this article is written by bosniac, it's not surprise...
In Response

by: Joe
October 20, 2011 10:57
RFE/RL propaganda crap:

"Izetbegovic, the son of the late Alija Izetbegovic, who led Bosnia's mainly Bosniak government throughout the war against separatist Serbs and Croats, said that what Dodik -- who was once the West's favorite Serbian politician in the Balkans, but has since turned into a hard-core nationalist -- said was detrimental to the interest of all Bosnians."

****

Izebegovic & son are Bosnian Muslim nationalists. Such Bosnian Muslim nationalist intransigence and biased anti-Serb agendas from Western neolibs and neocons (as detailed in The National Interest) has led Dodik to state the obvious.

As has been noted elsewhere, Bosnian Muslim nationalist extremism has led to a good number of Bosnian Craots seeing Dodik as a positive political factor.
In Response

by: PipiDugaDevetka from: Sarajevo
November 09, 2011 13:29
Yes, it is possible to translate somebody's name. For egzample, my Turkish name means, friend. Milorad means ''somebody to who likes to work'', to drives tractor vehicle...etc.

SDP leader, Zlatko L. winn elections and he is going to change Bosnia to be normal country. His changing relations about Bosnian Croats to be legal even if they comeing from SDP is genuius change.

He is going to become new Tito in Bosnia!

Anybody who become president or president of Govrnment of Republika srpska bh. entity, he/she MUST to arrest M. Dodik!
In Response

by: MAC from: SUA
November 13, 2011 18:58
It most certainly not ! It is a classic Slavonic name. Why do you make stuff up ?
Also there is no such language as Vlach, maybe romanian with its offshoot Aromanian, which is a particular dialect, easily understandable by any "Vlachs"
As Christians were raped robed and murdered since the 15'th century by Turks throughout the Balcans now all these centuries of opression are caming back to haunt them, Of course they don't like it and the modern people are not really to be blamed for what happened centuries ago but such is human nature...

by: Damir from: Canada
October 20, 2011 00:14
I've said it before and I'll say it again, this guy is a CRIMINAL. War time profiter turned politician and now he is the richest man in RS with only a 60K Euro annual salary? How is that possible?

Anyway, I HOPE his numbers are way off and 80% of Serbs DO want to remain as part of Bosnia as it cannot be any other way (we have the international communities support) and also because 80% of bosniaks feel the same.
In Response

by: Joe
October 20, 2011 10:59
In contrast, corruption is quite evident within Bosnian Muslim nationalist circles.

Republika Srpska at large doesn't seek that situation.

by: Djordje from: Montreal
October 20, 2011 03:48
One sided article, obviously blaming the Serbs for all of Bosnia's problems.

One cannot help but to point out that the first shots of the Bosnian War were fired upon by the Bosniak Muslims. One also has to point out the first peace plan (Carrington-Cutileiro) offered to Bosnia and signed by all three ethnic leaders at that time, which would've seen Bosnia divided into Swiss style cantons, with power shared by all three ethnic groups. This peace plan would've prevented any blood shed, but Alija Izetbegovic then opted out of it and the war started.

Bakir Izetbegovic should've pointed out his father's mistakes, because clearly if his father would've accepted such a plan, Bosnia today would be an independent state, inside the EU, and the biggest factor of all, the Croats and the Serbs would've never been concentrated anywhere and able to separate like they are today.

But today, where the majority of this country's population (Croats and Serbs) has its loyalty lying elsewhere, ie Zagreb and Belgrade, while the other ethnic group is a proponent of a united-Bosnia, trying to dominate and force the other two nations to accept this Bosnian identity.

There is a similar situation of separatism in Belgium, which is prosperous, has existed much longer and is in the center of Europe. There is no viable Belgian nation when the majority of its population does not support it (The Flemish are separatist, and consist about 60% of the Belgium's population.)
This is due to history of dislike between the two ethnic group, the other being the Waloons who have always dominated, despite being a minority.

This is what happens in nation with two or more ethnic groups are put together, who had/have little interest in building up a new identity.

Bosnia will fall apart sooner or later, whether it happens in two years or twenty years when it becomes part of the EU. It will fall apart faster than Belgium ever would, considering that Balkans people are less compromising and hold more grudges.

It will all come down to the Muslims/Bosniaks, who:
1) Will accept a partitioned Bosnia, just like it is pretty much now.
2) When the other two groups try to separate, there will be war, and they will continue to seek domination over the other two ethnic groups and their territory.

I think the option two will happen, and there will be blood, as much as I'd hate to say it.

In Response

by: iko from: vb
October 20, 2011 08:29
Bush Jr intended to go to war in Iraq irrespective of public belief in WMD, once he had set in motion the military juggernaut 12 months before the invasion, nothing like truth or good will was going to get in the way. Equally so the first shots fired in BiH weren’t at the ‘wedding party’ they were well and truly locked and loaded prior to that. If one was to be even more sequential then ask how long did it take Arkan and his thugs to drive from Serbia to Bijelina and start their bloody business end of March and the first days of April, well before the sniers fired at the independence peace march in Sarajevo, although Arkan’s gang were already more centred in Banja Luka at the time, fresh from their acts in Vukovar. Likewise weeks before the wedding party Serb paramilitaries were shooting and bombing their way through Bosanski Brod and around Banja Luka, not to mention the bombing of the petrol stores around Mostar.
No war happens over night, for a shot to be fired then a supply train and field operators are already in position to continue the firing. Serbia had planned the war, distributed their weaponry well before 1992, not to mention the Yugoslav UN motion to impose an arms embargo against ‘itself’ after massive arms imports from Lebanon and Russia 12 months leading up to Resolution 713 on 25 Sep 1991. No matter what, Bosnia’s fate was sealed long before the gangster’s shots at the wedding party. ( I can hear the response already- but consider what would have happened in BiH if there were no JNA transfer of collateral to RS- if there were no cross border terror tourists- forget the ‘we want Yugoslavia no matter what’ cause really Yugoslavia was done and buried long before Slovenia said ‘that’s all folks’)

As for how things will unfold for Bosnia- as time goes by the people of Bosnia, from RS and elsewhere, will appreciate how much more they have in common than separates them. Firstly, they are being democratically fleeced irrespective of whether they eat pork or not, by their fiscal financiers both in government and industry. (although the RS’ers have outshone the field in their rampant sell off of utilities and resources to their Russian mates- check the dividend deals they get in return less than a cash deposit!!, check the commission on sale and lease almost as good as the asset itself) Secondly, as Serbia and Croatia lose interest in their larger ambitions they will close the door on absorption of the provinces ie Hercogovina and RS as they will lose leverage in their negotiations for entry into the EU club ( and that is a priority for them, given the needs for a stimulus to their economy the EU membership is their only option)
People in the end of the day want a job, a future for their children, safe streets and a shared outlook of their surrounds which will be greater than the different ‘inlook’ of their religions. Bos Serbs know the lyrics to every sevdah as much as Bos Moslems, they share the same response to the first flowers in Spring, they know how to greet a stranger with respect, they know the same jokes. They used to recognise special moments in each’s cultural life and they, given the chance, will be able to do so again. The time for ‘truth and reconciliation’ within BiH is close no matter the jibber jabber of their power elites.
As for the old rank herring of if Belgium can’t then only mono ethnic states can exist in Europe- take a closer look at the demographic map of EU and UK ( don’t get all hot about Scotland, Wales etc -look within Britain itself and even within Scotland) and see how every country has managed to form a central unity no matter how polar are their constituent members. There are far more extremes than Belgium who manage to get ahead peacefully.

by: Billy
October 20, 2011 04:08
Crucial to point out that Karadzic did not threaten, he warned of possible consequences. Dodik's biggest problem is that he falls easily to the trolls coming out of Sarajevo. He would be best advised to ignore them and focus his efforts to continue serving the people of Republika Srpska and their best interests. Godspeed Mr Dodik.

by: Mark
October 20, 2011 04:25
The Bosnian Croats are the swing voters here. The Bosnjiaks have lost them through gaming of the political system and not addressing their concerns over marginalisation. Dodik has taken advantage of that to play divide and rule. Worst case scenario would be that the Bosnijak political leaders mismanage the situation and radicalise the Bosnian Croats to the extent that no reservoir of good will will exist for a political deal to be possible. Dodik doesn't even have to do anything, he can sit in his rocking chair and watch the federation unravel.


In Response

by: Joe
October 20, 2011 11:01
Along with Billy and Djorde at this thread, you make sense Mark - something that RFE/RL chooses to ignore.
In Response

by: Joe
October 20, 2011 11:06
US Embassy: "Dodik as Croat Hero"
http://www.crappytown.com/2011/10/us-embassy-dodik-as-croat-hero.html
In Response

by: Danny from: Brooklyn
October 23, 2011 03:00
Joe


your a sad joke. Some of the stuff you write, makes me laugh...like you live in Bosnia and know what goes on... tsk tsk.. it's sad, that people like you THINK they know but don't. In fact this article is so correct it can't be written better.

Bosnian muslims suffered to much, and Bakir has every right to defend Bosnia.
Bosnians have a right to defend their integrity of the country and its borders. Serbs have been abusing this since 1996, and threatning to leave Bosnia if it does not go their way. Bosnian muslims want to join the EU bloc, Dodik does not, he loves to play around. Why are 8 out of 10 people in Republic srpska broke, while their politicians are driving luxry cars, have houses all over the world? who pays for it? their own gov't, their own people.. And dodik knows how to play this game by blaming Bosnian muslims and scaring his own people that they are the threat. Dodik is corrupt that its written on his fat head. His people are starting to realize this..
In Response

by: Joe
October 23, 2011 19:11
Danny,

If anyone is the "joke", it's the likes of yourself, who piously suggest that Bosnian Muslim nationalists have done no wrong unlike others - namely Serbs.

The flawed coverage of former Yugolsavia by RFE/RL and some others serves to coddle your warped beliefs.


by: Abdulmajid
October 20, 2011 10:31
Indeed the Bosnian side should not make any big talk. By no means should they give an impresssion that could confirm what their enemies are constantly claiming. After all it is clear that even though they say that "repluka srpska" is economically better off and its political structure is more streamlined, the truth is that the people are as poor as ever (or even more so) and that only fear of the Bosniaks instilled by Dodik with the old Karadzic propaganda keeps them in line. For you can't eat ultranationalism, it has no nutrients at all. And in the meanwhile Dodik and his cronies have sold off their feud's assets cheaply to Russia, have enriched themselves at the people's expense and rule as if the country (and by that I mean all of Bosnia for they have a huge leverage to make life miserable for Bonsiaks) was their private property. What I have seen of repluka srpska only confirms to me that it is the poorer, shabbier, more primitive part of the country. As for the HDZ/HVO-dominated parts of Bosnia, firstly in many places there weren't any Bonsiaks, but in half of their towns there were or are Bosniaks who are still harassed and downtrodden, but wherever these HVO people dominate the Bosnian Croats already do as they please and live only among themselves, without the Bonsiaks interfering so what the ... more do they want? Then the Bosniaks never were alone in defending Bosnia (Jovan Divjak, Blaz Kraljevic, all those Bosnian Serbs and Croats who did not forsake their Bosniak friends, do they count for nothing?) The serbofascists always babble about the "Bosniak army" well it neve was 100% Bosniak and much less 100% Muslim. But the Bosnian side must offer the non-Bonsiaks a perspective, a future, or else their enemies will claim that the Bosniaks want Bosnia only for them. But it is not whether one is Bosniak or not what determines if he has a right to live in Bosnia. It is whether he stands for Bosnia, or for Greater Serbia or Greater Croatia, whether he is for or against Bosnia and those who are against Bosnia have forfeited all their rights. So the Bosnian side (and I say Bonsian not just Bosniak!) will have to courteously but firmly refuse any attempts at sabotage or partition of Bosnia or which will in the end lead to partition, on the side of Dodik and his cronies. If Dodik wants to go it alone, or rather Anschluss to Serbia, he will have to use force to do it.

by: Abdulmajid
October 20, 2011 10:36
Let the Serbs fire the first shots. Not that it matters much. The serbofascists always claim the Bosniaks fired the first shots, at that Orthodox wedding party. First, this is not true, the Serbs murdered the Bosniaks of Bijeljina first; and second it is irrelevant which side fired the first shot. Who is the aggressor, that is relevant. Who fired the first shot in anger on December 7th, 1941, the Japanese? No, the Americans did. Yet there can be no doubt the Japanese were the aggressors. And there is no doubt the Serbs were the aggressors because they had planned the destruction of Bosnia and the genocide against the Bosniaks beforehand. All claims to the contrary are nothing but propaganda lies. Serbs have since 1804 postulated that the Bosniaks must be destroyed. It is all over what they call literature, it is a historical continuity, it is an integral and the main part of their national and family tradition and folklore, each generation feels compelled to do their part at it, it is their national obsession, as it was the Japanese national obsession to do in the Koreans and Chinese because just as the Japanese do withthe Chinese and Koreans, the Serbs see the Bosniaks as sub-human, and follow the pre-Western, pre-democratic medieval ideas of genocide against Muslims and religious and blood purity which were best expressed in the crusades, the reconquista of Spain, the conquest of the Americas. The Japanese were cured form the desire to commit genocide in 1945 and until 1953. So, let the Serbs see us balije and sipos as inferior, let them think of us what they like, but they must be made to remove from their political agenda all and any claims on Bosnia, Kosovo, Croatia etc., and any means or possibility to continue interfering and destabilizing Bosnia and Kosovo must be taken away from them, only then will peace be achieved in the region. To this end it would suffice to apply to the Serb side just 10% of the cruelty they did to the Bosniaks in 1992-95. Then they would sue for peace and never give the Bosniaks any more trouble.
In Response

by: Emir from: Delaram, Afghanistan
October 23, 2011 06:42
Abdulmajid, what school did you study WW2 history in? Americans fired the first shots on December 7th? Are you sure about that? Maybe, Americans bombed themselves at Pearl Harbor to attack a peaceful nation of Japanese Empire. Surely, it was American bidding when WW1 begun. It wasn't Gavrilo Princip and his Serbian financiers, it was American CIA that killed the Archduke. Just ask anybody with access to youtube, Americans bomb themselves to attack peaceful nations. Just like they did on 9/11. Right, Abdul?
In Response

by: Abdulmajid
October 23, 2011 20:33
YOU are the one who doesn't know much of WWII history. Let me explain to you, feller: The Japanese task force which attacked Pearl Harbor included 5 2-man midget submarines which were deployed from 5 larger submarines which sailed ahead of the Aircraft carriers. It almost ruined the Japanese surprise attack. They were supposed to sneak into the harbor and fire two torpedoes at the warships anchored there (one probably succeeded hitting the "Oklahoma"). One of these was caught by the destroyer "USS Ward" in a zone where submarines were only allowed to pass on the surface, correctly identified as hostile, shot at with cannon and depth-charged and sunk. THESE were the first shots of the American-Japanese war! And it is irrefutable truth that Japan was the Agggressor! The Americans had all the right in the world to shoot back at them! I just wanted to dispel the silly notion that "who fired the first shots is guilty of the war". The commander of "USS Ward" did the right thing: fire at an obviously hostile vessel (American submarines had orders not to approach Pearl Harbor submerged, so any sub trying to sneak into the harbor HAD to be hostile) with obvious hostile intentions. It is very popular among the enemies of Bosnia to say "some Bosniaks shot at a Serb wedding party in Sarajevo and the war began." The Bosniaks are NOT guilty of starting the war (the desire to be free from Serb oppression, misrule and persecution is not illegal; or, wasn't it the Americans' good right to be free from British misrule and oppression in 1776??) The incident where the "USS Ward" sank that Japanese midget submarine in the entrance of Pearl Harbor just prior to the Japanese air raid is well documented in many books about WW II, many of which I have read since I was a kid, and which I do not believe to be false, it appears in the film "Tora Tora Tora" which is a truthful account of the Pearl Harbor raid, and what's more, the midget submarine was found in 2004, with a grenade hit through its conning tower. I have in the past quoted that particular incident of Dec. 7th often enough! So, next time before you start insulting me kindly get your facts right, and if you don't have anything intelligent or constructive to contribute here then STAY OUT!!! And don't you dare make fun of me or insult me again!

by: GeoV from: Wales
October 20, 2011 12:10
As the rhetoric in BiH at the moment is moving the country in the direction of the failed state that Dodik considers it to be, perhaps it is time to permit him a referendum on RS secession. At least this would allow the consequences to be set out in detail.

If the referendum were to confirm secession, the EU process for BiH accession - which is the only realistic hope for greater prosperity in the area - would change dramatically. RS would find it extremely difficult to meet the stringent EU membership criteria, assuming the EU would open negotiations with it. It could look to Serbia for some sort of union or association, but this would block Serbia's own accession. It seems unlikely that Tadic, (who has set out his position on BiH territorial integrity), having invested the effort he has in EU membership - in simple terms, a vastly more prosperous future for Serbia - would sacrifice this for Dodik.

By contrast, the Federation would make rapid progress towards EU integration. In passing, it should be said there would be no Croat secession; Croatia will join the EU with its present borders and no change will be accepted at a later date. The result would be the development of a great disparity in standards of living between the two halves of the former state and an increased political and economic isolation for RS, (whose awkward geography would be unhelpful in changed circumstances).

No doubt there are those in RS who say they could go it alone and it would not matter. However, rhetoric and wishful thinking do not bring prosperity for ordinary people.

by: Mark from: UK
October 20, 2011 15:44
@Abdulmajid..."SERBOFASCISTS" "GENOCIDE"...Evil Serbs. Trolling is not the answer to Bosnia's problems and I don't beleive there is an answer.

Can someone please answer the most basic of questions for me, that we tend to ignore. How can a country where 2/3 constituent ethnic groups largely oppose the country itself continue to function?

It seems that blaming SERB NATIONALISTS and CROAT NATIONALISTS and Dodik and Covic is the solution for the international community to attempt to cover up the facts on the ground. Those being that 50% + of the population of the quasi state known as Bosnia-Herzegovina does not wish to remain in this state.

We can go one arguing over who fired the first shots in the war, who murdered who and all those outrageous arguments, but that will lead us nowhere. The fact is that it is 2011, new generations of Bosnian Muslims, Serbs and Croats are coming up, and 2/3 wish to secede. That is a FACT!
In Response

by: Abdulmajid
October 20, 2011 19:23
I do have an answer. It is simply that NEVER AGAIN shall anybody have the right to dispute the Bosniaks' right to exist, to their history, to their nationality, their identity as a people, their dignity, their right to therir homeland. Whoever challenges that is a genocidal and must swiftly be made harmless.THAT is my answer! Let them suffer the fate they intend for us balije! Pay them back with their own coin, with interests! And your math is very poor. Since when do 11% Croats and 30% serbs make up "50+" or even 2/3 of the people. You insult my intelligence. And you even have the ... NERVE to call ME "troll" when the Serbofascists have by their own genocidal deeds and statements proven what they are. But I see what you are. I know why you talk to me as you do, because you consider me, for being a Muslim, inferior, genetically, morally and intellectually. You are one of those who believe that Muslims are there to be downtrodden forever, and if they dare rise or protest then you call them "terrorists" or "jihadists". You anti-Muslims will NOT triumph and you will never see 1492 repeated all over again in Bosnia. The reconquista in Bosnia will be undone and any renewed attempt will be suppressed. We have seen the evil one uttery defeated and destroyed in Libya, and we will see that in Bosnia too, if they try anything foolish. The Serbs say the Kosovo Albanians already have a country, Albania. Ha ha ha, my answer to that is the opposite is true, if the Serbs want to live in one state let them go east of the Drina and leave us balije, us "jihadists, terrorists, traitors, Turks, islamicized Serbs" and whatever other epithets they care to insult us with, IN PEACE! What right do they have to carve territories out of their neighbors' countries! What right do they have to declare a territory "Serb" and murder or expel all its non-Serb inhabitants! THAT is how "repluka srpska" was created and for that reason it must disappear. To bring the HVO ustase in line will then be easy, because it will suffice to remind them that in 1994 they could have been thrown into the sea! Any degree of autonomy for the non-Muslims in Bosnia can be negotiated and given, but ONLY under the condition that the sovereignty and borders of the state are INVIOLABLE! There will be no separate flags or anthems, nor institutions, nor school curricula, political parties will be forbidden from organizing along ethnic lines, and NOBODY will be a second class citizen, be barred from living and settling anywhere he wants nor from moving freely in the country. But the Cross will NEVER chase the Crescent out of Bosnia! That is my answer! If the Serbs and the Israelis could establish their coutries by force then why deny the Bosniaks the right to defend themselves, because they are Mooslims, right! Muslims will NO LONGER be downtrodden. They have the same right to be respected as Christians do, and if you don't acknowledge that then you are an Islamophobe! But the fact that you use the epithet "Bosnian Muslims" instaed of "Bosniaks" already proves to me that you are hostile to them. Then I do not wish your friendship.
In Response

by: Abdulmajid
October 20, 2011 19:24
Marko: Of course I already know you are one of those who favor the Serb side and you think that us balije, being dirty Mooslims, infrahumans and traitors to Christianity and to the European race, don't have any rights whatsoever but bend over and be kicked in the backside. And move out to the Middle East. Just so you know, the Serbs in Bosnia are about 30% of the population; what gives them right to exyclude al non-Serbs from 50% of the country that was offered to them on a silver platter by the craven inhuman antiu-Muslim rulers of teh West. The Bosnian Croats, after havimng destroxyed East Mostar, lost militarily to the Bosniaks, but teh Americans would not allow ther Bosniaks to throw them into the Adriatic, but instead forced them into this lopsided m<yrriage called teh Federacija. They make up about 11%. 30% + 11% = 41%. Where is the "2/3 majority who reject Bosnia"??? And do you really think teh Bosniaks will bve squzeezed in 25% of the territory of Bosnia, being about 50% of the population (the rest still foolishly call themselves "Yugoslavs" or are Roma, but even so, a sizable part of them are Muslims!) into a Balkan version of the Gaza Strip. TRhat's what you waqnt but you are very wrong if you think teh Bodsniaks will allow their enemies to turn them into the Palestinians of Europe anfd ber surrounded on all sides by hostioe peoples, depending on their mercy for every nail and every pinch of salt that then has to be imported, on electric power, water, gas, heat and deprived the possibloity to travel abroad. So NO TO PARTITION OF BOSNIA!!! And whoever trioes to bring that about shall meet a swift death! And don't try to insult my intelligence with your pseudoscientificv and pesudohistorical arguments why Bosnia must be partitioned and the Bosniaks ghettoized! That the Bosniaks are Musims does not give anybody a right to challenge their existence! If the Israelis were allowed to carve out their country, then why not the Bosniaks! Because they are Mooslims, yes? Don't try to deny it, you are an Islamophobe! And just so you know, THE CROSS WILL NEVER CHASE THE CRESCENT OUT OF BOSNIA! BOSNIA WILL NEVER BE PARTITIONED! And if I call them Serbofascists and genocidalsthen because of their OWN statements and because of their UNDENIABLE CRIMES! And because of the continuity of the destruction of Bosniaks one can see in all Serb governements and in Serb culture sinfce 1804. SO DON'T YOU DARE CALL ME "TROLL", ...YOU!!!
In Response

by: Mark from: UK
October 20, 2011 21:01
Well so much for intelligent debate..... My appologies if you took the classification of your ethnic group as an insult, I accept that you have the right to be called what you wish and I shall from here on out call you by your chosen name, Bosniaks.

I wish no ill will towards the Bosniak people nor do I attempt to cover up crimes committed against them, rather I sympathize with their losses.

Now to attempt to address your bizarre and hate-filled retort to my earlier point;
The demographic figures to which you point are outdated and do not reflect the current situation in Bosnia. I do beleive that Bosniaks make up just under 50% of the population and the combination of all other ethnic groups comes just over 50%, so my generalization may have been too much. Again, I have no idea where in my response you took that I wished any harm to muslims or was an islamaphobe, but I guess you have deep seeded hatred that just comes out to the surface. Since you appear to be very passionate about Bosnia's future, please explain to me how you wish to achieve a functioning centralized state. But, bear in mind that the vast majority (88%+) of Serbs and Croats oppose the state as a whole and will settle for nothing less than a solution that gives them broad autonomy within the Bosnian state, or outright independence.

I think that if the failed experiment of Yugoslavia and the nationalist governments that followed, showed us anything, it is that imposing the will of one group on others only leads to bloodshed and mutual hatred and distrust. Hence, the idea that Bosniak's can force a situation in which the state is centralized in their favour, at the expense of Croats and Serbs to me seems impossible, unless another war happens (god forbid).

Cheers and no need to get angry and insulting.

In Response

by: Felipe Muñoz from: Santiago, Chile
October 20, 2011 23:00
C'mon Abduljamid.. you can say whatever you want about crusaders, serb-fascists, croat-fascists, ''the Cross will NEVER chase the Crescent out of Bosnia!'', and bla bla bla bla.. (as always, muslim nazi-style ideology). But you CANNOT DENY THE HARSH REALITY that this current Bosnia-Herzegovina.. Ejem ejem my apologies.. ''Bosnia-Herzegovina''... it's destinated to colapse. This blind West cannot keep alive forever this dying state... only because Turkey is pressing them to do that..

If you want a Sharia-Law ruled state, AL-Qaeda admirer state, Al-Shabab fan state, Taliban-fan state, Sufi-follower state... you can do this: STAY AWAY from croats and serbs, and their own lands!... and build your new Saudi Arabia.. but WITHOUT SERB AND CROAT LANDS.. dont be blind!.
In Response

by: iko from: vb
October 21, 2011 08:48
@Felipe- when compared to Abdulmajid ironically you're only a cliche short of a stereotype yourself.
In Response

by: Joe
October 20, 2011 21:35
Mark, that dude is a waste of time.

Best tio try to ignore as much as possible.
In Response

by: Abdulmajid
October 21, 2011 10:56
I stand to what I've sdaid.
And yes, the HVO and chetniks must be done away with.
And don't nobody ever dare say "jihadists" or "sharia state" or any other crude sertbofascist anti-Bosniak jingoism, who does that has resigned from the human race and should suffer in his own flesh what they intend for us balije. It os simple as that. If the Israelis were allowed to impose their will on al the Arab world as a compensation for the West doing nothing against the Holocaust, then why not the Bosniaks be allowed to live in freedom despite of the christofascist aspirations by the chetniks and ustase to throw them into the sea? And Felipe Munoz of Filip Petrovic or whatever your name is I DO NOT ADMIT ANY statements or feeble anti-Bosniak justifications by a declared enemy of my brothers and sisters! And I have already read some threats againsgt teh Bosniaks that next time around they will bve decimated to 10% or 5% THAT IS A DECLARATION OF WAR BY THE SERBS ALREADY. And as such I see it.
In Response

by: DJ Blitz from: Adelaide (Australia)
October 21, 2011 14:58
Well said Joe, I only read the comments with interest and noticed that Abdulmajid is a kid brought to life in hate filled sorroundings. C'mon man war happened 15 years ago (I know I was in it), as a result I know live in a country far far away and yes I'm what you call muslim because I'm not the serb or Croat but also I'm no muslim. I say this because my parents thought me to be yugoslav now when yugoslavia went to shits I stayed one cause I was never religious nor would I ever be, anyway I DID join JNA and stayed on the serb side till the end only cause what you and the people alike wanted could never happened. You sound like Alija Izetbegovic himself and instead you and people like you should chanel their energy into how to live better not how to hate better but listening to Bakir I'm afraid that war machine has been put into motion not directly thru Bosnians but Kosovo Albanians(don't forget that it is albanians who tried to cause break up of yugoslavia with the help of the whitehouse but failed) now the timing is different and the Americans have put wheels into motion, all they have to do is wait and try bombing whoever is against their truth. They didn't build bigest US Army base outside of the States for no reason but to use it for rapid deployments arround europe which are about to happen. As things stands you might get a chance to eradicate mistake and try to expel serbs only to find out that after 15 years you still don't have what it takes to win a war. I sincerely wish for that to happen beacuse the war itself was cut short and it wasn't allowed its natural conclusion which means forced peace isn't solution but only extesion of the problem and I would really loved to volounteer to take up arms again and finish where we left of in 95'.
In Response

by: still waters from: usa
October 20, 2011 22:28
2/3rd? Bosniaks are 44-50% of the population I thought. Even if all the Serbs and Croats support secession, it would be 50-50%. What's true is that Serbs and Croats control 2/3rd of the land, which is not in proportion to their population.

The fact is that the Serbians were given a disproportionate amount of land by the Dayton accord based on the amount of territory they won in the war. Now, they can't use all that land as the basis for a new country. In the event, that the do cede, they shouldn't get more than 1/3rd of the country.
In Response

by: iko from: vb
October 21, 2011 08:38
The figures as of 2002 are closer to 48% Bos Moslems, 37% Bos Serbs and 14% Bos Croats with 1% mixed origins. The 2/3 figure is misleading, even accepting that it is a simple reference to constituent ethnic members it remains problematic. Dodik talked recently of 80% in RS favouring secession (admittedly he at different stages said 100% and 88% ) Still that suggests 20% or thereabouts in RS would favour remaining in a BiH state. (Not to mention the near impossible task of defining fair borders as the current Dayton based lines are still very much based on the premise of an internal distribution within a sovereign state.) If this was the same for Bos Croats then there is a strong suggestion that there is likely 70%: 30% split in favour of maintaining BiH. (this is presuming that Bos Mos still want some sort of partnership with the other groups)
It would be a fairer process to allow all refugees to return to their homes with special support for those who were forced to sell or sign over their entitlement, including Croatian Serbs returning to their homes in Croatia. Currently this process is a sad tale of intimidation and exploitation. Denying this correction muddies the perception of what people actually want and leaves them vulnerable to political manipulation.
In Response

by: Mukesh from: UK
October 29, 2011 20:15
I worked for the world bank in 1999 and again for a while in 2003 and was involved in some of the efforts to rebuild the eastern parts of Croatia and northern Bosnia. We were quite successful and securing EU funding and rebuilding houses where land mines were not set or had been cleared but by 2003 we had only about 2-300 homes inhabited out of 1700. The people that left Croatia and BiH (Serbs, Croats, or Bosnians) left for good. They didn't plan it that way but when we were presented with the numbers we were shocked. You see, in some instances people left for Germany or Canada and are better off there and don't want to return. Others that left have aged, anyone over 45 then is unlikely to return, they have their doctors, their pensions, their kids.. all in Croatia or Serbia or wherever they ended up. The children that left grew up and married and have new lives. It's amazing to think how much life changes over 20 years but then think about where you lived 20 years ago, would you return there now? If your wife was from the America and you lived together in Wales for 10 years, would you just go to America with her now? Leave your job, uproot your life, close you bank accounts, sell all you own, and return to a town that is nothing like what you left and offers few familiarities or comforts.. could you do it? Most people, we found anyways, didn't return because they didn't want to return. Sadly the ethnic cleansing that occurred can't be undone after so many years. If you don't believe me, ask yourself how many Germans have returned to live in Poland or Czech republic?
In Response

by: Liberty
October 21, 2011 14:25
Can someone please answer the most basic of questions for me, that we tend to ignore. How can a country where 2/3 constituent ethnic groups largely oppose the country itself continue to function?
---------------------------------------

No, it can´t function. Bosnia and Herzegovina is damaged beyond any repair.

by: jill starr from: bloomingdale nj usa
October 20, 2011 20:35
GIVE THE SERBS THEIR OW COUNTRY !

What It’s Like to Chill Out With Whom the Rest of the World Considers As The Most Ruthless Men: Ratko Mladic, Goran Hadzic and Radovan Karadzic (+) Confessions of a Female War Crimes Investigator By Jill Louise Starr NJ USA

http://sites.google.com/site/jillstarrsite/what-it-s-like-to-chill-out-with-whom-the-rest-of-the-world-considers-as-the-most-ruthless-men-in-the-world-ratko-mladic-and-radovan-karadzic-confessions-of-a-female-war-crimes-investigator

Retrospectively, it was all so simple, natural and matter of fact being on a boat restaurant in Belgrade, sitting with, laughing, drinking a two hundred bottle of wine and chatting about war and peace while Ratko Mladic held my hand. Mladic, a man considered the world’s most ruthless war criminal since Adolf Hitler, still at large and currently having a five million dollar bounty on his head for genocide by the international community. Yet there I was with my two best friends at the time, a former Serbian diplomat, his wife, and Ratko Mladic just chilling. There was no security, nothing you’d ordinarily expect in such circumstances. Referring to himself merely as, Sharko; this is the story of it all came about.
Diplomatic / International Relations Consultant & War Crimes Investigator
- War
- Peace
- Preventive Diplomatic Strategies
- International Law
- Charitable Causes
- International Business
- International Political Economy
- Human Rights - Politics
- War Crimes Investigations
- Anti-Terrorism
- Law Projects Center Funded Projects (YCICC) Internationally
http://sites.google.com/site/jillstarrsite
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