Thursday, April 24, 2014


Macedonia

UN Chief Pledges Action On Macedonia-Greece Name Dispute

UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon speaks in the Macedonian parliament.
UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon speaks in the Macedonian parliament.
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By RFE/RL's Balkan Service
United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has pledged to Macedonia's parliament that he will try to speed up the process of resolving Macedonia's long-running name dispute with Greece. 
 
He told the parliament after a meeting with Macedonian President Gjorge Ivanov that his "personal representative [for the name dispute], Mr. Matthew Nimetz, will also brief the Greek government authorities about what we have discussed and he will engage more seriously and deeply to help facilitate the resolution of this issue as soon as possible."
 
Ban also expressed his regret that the Skopje-Athens standoff over the country’s name is presenting an obstacle for regional cooperation and development.

"I will try to engage with [Greek Prime Minister Antonis Samaras] to help expedite this process. I feel it regrettable that two neighboring countries, over this name issue, have not been able to fully use their potential for regional cooperation, reconciliation, and development," Ban said.
 
Macedonia and Greece have been locked in a name dispute since the former Yugoslav republic gained independence in 1991. Athens has blocked Macedonia's membership in NATO because of the row, arguing that the name Macedonia implies a territorial claim over its northern region of the same name. 
 
Skopje rejects Greece's claim. More than 130 nations recognize the country as Macedonia, but it is still listed at the UN under its provisional name, the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. 
 
Bosnian Leg

After visiting Macedonia, Ban continued his Balkans tour with a visit on July 25 to his last stop in the former Yugoslavia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, where he is expected to visit Srebrenica, the site of Europe's worst massacre since World War II.

Earlier this month, Bosnians marked the 17th anniversary of the slaughter in which Bosnian Serbs killed some 8,000 Muslim men and boys in 1995 after capturing the town that had been declared a UN safe area. 

In Srebrenica, Ban made a plea for an end to the violence in Syria.
 
"Here in the heart of a healing Bosnia and Herzegovina, I make a plea to the world: do not delay. Come together. Act. Act now to stop the slaughter in Syria," he said.
 
Ban has visited Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro, Serbia, and Kosovo since he began his Balkans tour on July 20.
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Comment Sorting
Comments
     
by: Janos from: Budapest
July 25, 2012 16:48
Greek lies never ends. Should start working instead of creating troubles to everyone...to Macedonia, to Turkey...to whole EU
In Response

by: mitsos from: gr
July 26, 2012 06:45
What are the Greek lies?should Greece allows the slavic bulgarian origin nationFYROM, artificially created by Tito in 1945 to appropriate the historic heritage of ancient macedons for his self ?or maybe Greece should allow the turks to occupy the greek islands in the agean sea? Greek history is full of struggles and will do the same if it's needed
In Response

by: Anonymous
July 26, 2012 16:29
and ?

then ?

world finish ?


In Response

by: Kostas from: Montreal
July 28, 2012 21:33
Yes, Greece should allow these. Greek history is also full of humiliations and long term invasions because of the stupidity of some leaders. If they don't want that to happen again, they should act wiser.

by: HS from: Seattle, USA
July 25, 2012 19:09
I still don't understand why Greece, a well-armed NATO member with over 11 million people, is afraid of Macedonia, a poorer country with only 2 million people.

And I think it's a bit hypocritical for Greeks to complain that Macedonia is stealing Greek symbols. Have Greeks looked at their flag lately? It's obviously modeled on the U.S. flag. Perhaps the U.S. should kick Greece out of NATO until they change their flag.
In Response

by: MITSOS from: GR
July 26, 2012 07:13
The problem with FYROM has no relation with 'military fear' or flags ect.. But with one historic paradox .Today a slavic Bulgarian origin nation , with bulgarian idiom as language,that never been in balkans prior 1945 as an existance and always was considered as akin to bulgarian nation, is trying from 1991 to appropriate the history, the name ,and the heritage of ancient macedonia the second cradle of hellenic civilization the fatherland of Alexander the great .Ofcourse Greece has a province with the same name "Μακεδονία"
In Response

by: I am born macedonian from: Australia
July 26, 2012 14:12
To Mitsos
For your information the Greek province of Macedonia was named in 1989 when everybody new that Yugoslavia will be disintegrated so Greece will continue with the assimilation. Before 1989 was called northern Greece and after the second world war was called the Occupied territories. Does not that explain something. And finally find out what happened at Bucharest in 1913 and what was happening in the Balkan wars.
Alexander the Great father was Macedonian and his mother Greek and ancient Macedonians and Greeks had an ongoing war
In Response

by: mitsos from: gr
July 26, 2012 18:47
Macedonia is a province of Greece since 1912 and never had other name than ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ evrybody can see all maps from diferent times, north Greece is not a province name the stupidities for occupied lands are fabrications of skopian to make their people more fanatic .the name north Greece was for the administrative ministry including the two provinces of Macedonia and Thrace this ministry changed name in 1988 to ministry macedonia-thrace
In Response

by: HS from: Seattle, WA
July 26, 2012 19:31
If there is no "military fear," then why does Greece care? If people want to call their country Macedonia, so what? Also, what does it matter what the situation was 60-70 years ago? What's important is how people identify now. The current generation has lived in a region called Macedonian all their lives and have thought of themselves as speaking Macedonian (not Bulgarian) all their lives. By your argument, Latvia and Estonia should not be allowed to be countries since there were never countries called Latvia and Estonia before.
And flags are an issue, since Greece has complained that the Macedonian flag used a "Greek" symbol., and forced them to change their design. So please answer me, why is Greece allowed to copy the U.S. flag, but Macedonia is not allowed to use what Greece considers to be a Greek symbol?

There are 10 towns in the U.S. named Macedonia, there are 19 towns in the U.S. that are named Athens, 14 towns in the U.S. named Sparta, and one town in the U.S. named Greece. Why doesn't Greece complain that these towns are stealing the "history, the name, and the heritage" of Macedonia and Greece and insist that they change their names?
In Response

by: Steve from: Sydney
July 27, 2012 03:12
You clown...How does the Greek flag have anything to do with the American flag you crazy Skop?
In Response

by: Risto from: Dolno Dupeni
July 28, 2012 07:15
But the Greek flag has everything to do with the Bavarian flag of Germany. And also an uncanny resemblance to an Indian Tea Company of the 1700's.

Anyway, why would you resort to calling names? When the term "Skop" is used by a Greek Tourko-Gypsy it is considered derogatory. Please refrain from this in the future Steve.

cheers

by: Anonymous
July 26, 2012 12:16
due respect for "the greek struggles of the past".

yet, what about cities like london, bírmingham, places like new england, french names, german names, netherlands'...new amsterdam, etc. in north america.
really ´, no trouble, actually.

in the case of "macedonia", many greeks have a problem even with the very pronounciation of the word (already something that raises attention). "fyrom, former republic of macedonia" is less "macedonian?
"makedhonia". yeah, great, this is a greek province and many people know of course are conscious of the fact that "macedonians" speak a slavic language.

yet, what is all this. it's not like jews and arabs changing arabic names into hebrew ones or arabs changing hebrew names into arabic ones, turks changing armenian or georgian names into turkish ones, etc. it's not that much about villages, towns...
that were occupied by others, destroyed, people dispossessed, expelled, exiled, killed, etc. throughout history.

in this case, it's about self-perception and the perception of another group. so, if seems that if greeks do not accept it (the denomination of a place), they probably have to come to terms with it. the "macedonians" have neither conquered nor attacked any part of greece.
if the story is about alexander everyone knows that slavic languages as today did not exist at that time. so what?

if the past and the reputation of some historical figure are important to people they should strive to emulate what they like (if it is acceptable in terms of values) instead of defending a supposedly national heritage which clearly is also a universal one.

in a way, this whole dispute touches aspects of ridiculousness (bearing in mind of course that "names, denominations" matter)! sorry.
yet, today, there are many more urgent and difficult challenges ahead than the name of "..." (whatever), a tiny country to the north of greece with no less problems and challenges than greece itself.
In Response

by: MITSOS from: GE
July 26, 2012 19:37
The readers can see the ignorance or the brainwash !!!!,,Please see this laughable "quote" from an uncultivated slav .... "Alexander the Great father was Macedonian and his mother Greek " he writes macedonian because according to skopian propaganda the macedonians were not greeks hahaha may the were bulgarians like him ... i will remind to all readers that ruling dynasty of Macedonia from about 700 to 310 BC. were self-identified as proud greeks from timenides family from city of argos in peloponnisos (argead dynasty) claiming Herakles as their ancestor... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argead_dynasty !!!!!!!!
In Response

by: MITSOS from: GR
July 26, 2012 21:03
Things are not so "ideal" as you think Greece-Fyrom dispute is not only the name . the Hellenism and its ancient historic heritage is not a super-market "product" from past with less significance for the Greeks .that everyone can use it as he wish ofcourse we are proud to say that ancient Hellenic heritage belongs also to global civilization but we demand a respect , , tomorrow in London olympic stadium the first entrance will be by the Hellenic olympic team as a honor to Greece . How do you personaly respect the Greeks and their struggles as you say, when you are accepting indirectly the stealing of macedonian historic heritage which is the second cradle of Greek civilization by a slavic (bulgarian idiom language speaking ) nation that was not existed in antiquity as you describe but they come to surface only the last years. have you ever see what history falsification and brainwash is performed by slavs in fyrom to their people ?have you ever read what history explanations are giving to their ethnology and language? do you know that the term "slav" is considered today as an insult in skopia ? do you know that those slavs are claiming Alexander the great as their anscestor? do you know about project skopia 2014? do you know that one of their ex-prime minister mr Georgievski said that fyrom is today a greater history falsifier in balkans? ..................
In Response

by: steve from: Canada
July 28, 2012 05:36
The paranoia in Greece has to do with it's own Macedonian minority in 'the north' beginning to assert themselves and demanding to be recognized.

But instead of recognizing the Macedonians as a unique ethnicity like we do in Canada with Quebec, Greece denies our existence because they are terrified of a reunification with the Republic of Macedonia.

This is ridiculous. At least when we were occupied by the turks for 500 years we kept our languages and our names. When the Greeks took over in 1913, they changed our surnames and names of our villages. THIS IS DEMOCRACY?

Enough of this lunacy......slavic macedonians have been in this area since the 6th century.
In Response

by: mitsos from: gr
July 28, 2012 14:19
Macedonian minority does not exist in Greece!! The slavophone bilinguals in greek province of makedonia are self- identified as Greeks in conscience therefore have no link with your FYROM nation , the slavs in fyrom (bugarin) call them "grekomanus"aka fanatic greeks !!However,if you mean minority "existance" the 2000, slavomacedonians descentants of bulgarian-macedonian guerrillas of 1900(komitatzides)i must inform you that these people are constituting the remains from bulgarian border population and never are constituting a compount minority population . Therefore if those people are under presure or they want somenthing from greeks ,or they want fyrom protection why they don't make demonstrations on the streets,or declarations that are SAME ETHNICITY with you .They have a political party taking around 1500 votes in makedonia province among 2,5 million greeks .the question is why FYROM slavs and skopia leaders are talking for them. why they interfere in greece internal matters this is a clear irredentism this can be very dangerous for balkan peace !!it is common idea in greece that fyrom leadership does not want to live in peace with greeks!!!!
In Response

by: mitsos from: gr
July 28, 2012 15:45
My friend Steve where did you find the "unique ethnicity"? was any "macedonia nation" recorded in historiography prior the end of 19th century ? if it was such nation .wouldn't be recorded by Romans ,byzantines, ottoman turks ? why they didn't? maybe a greek conspiracy?
In Response

by: MITSOS from: GR
July 28, 2012 19:45
Steve from canada, i realy don't know if you have contact with reality or you make jokes
see what you say "At least when we were occupied by the turks for 500 years we kept our languages and our names" what names? and what language ? did you have in ottoman era schools different than bulgarians? did you have churche different than bulgarian exarchia ? what was your difference ?the turks never made distinction to your nation from Bulgarian nation simply because you are Bulgarians tribe ,south-slavs .the "macedonia" illutions are later edition ,you have modified your language in 1945 in order to be more close to serbs than Bulgarians this is the truth want it or not !!!

by: Annie from: London
July 28, 2012 21:45
Bozaris the Albanian

-------

Modern Greece A Short History
C.M. Woodhouse

Page 163

"....It is a striking fact that the leading defenders of Greek liberty at this time were largely Non-Greek. Koundouriotis was decended from the Albanian invadors of Greece in the 14th century...One of the few leaders who maintained resistance far to the north of the Gulf of Corinth was the Souliote,Marko Botsaris,whos followers were largely Albanian"
In Response

by: mitsos from: gr
July 29, 2012 09:37
Exept the "albanians" NON-GREEKS you forgot to mention lord Byron or the slavophone capten kottas all of them were died for greece liberty so they were in conscience greeks and we are proud for them AS GREEK HEROES . ofcourse those sensitives meanings about what is hellenism and hellenic ethnos !are not understood by "barbarians"! however ,the philological question "who is a greek" no matter what was his origin has been answered by Isocrates panegyricus in 4th bc . also Alexander's dream was to make the "barbarians" Greeks spreading the Hellenic civilization and way of life to them ! so your comical "contribution" to that question has only the ignorance element of an uncultivated amateur
In Response

by: Steve from: canada
July 29, 2012 23:26
Mitsos, if there was no Slavic Macedonians in the northern region of Greece then how is it that my parents and their parents were born in the village of Banitza and they did not speak one word of Greek....none of them did.

And that brings me to the next fact. Why were all of the village names changed to hellenic names after 1913? My parents village Banitza is now called Vevi. If that is not an attempt of foreful assimilation I don't know what is.

I don't joke and I don't B.S. My grandparents (baba and dedo) not papou and yaya told me awful stories of intimidation and violence that Mr Metaxis did.

Also, when the repatriation of turkish greeks from micro asia happened, our people taught them how to farm .. they couldn't do anything. I personally know 2 Pontios who speak perfect macedonian...how the hell did this happen....ask yourself Mr Mitsos.
In Response

by: Steve from: Canada
July 30, 2012 00:10
Mitsos, don't misunderstand me...I have many greek friends that I went to school with and continue to be great friends with many of them. I do not carry any hatred at all because I was born and bred in Canada and have not even been to Greece.

But my friends know that I am not of hellenistic blood or mind. They call me 'brahchko'...which means friend in Macedonian.

My problem is with greek politics. Personally I blame the Greek Orthodox church also for many of the bad decisions because they are so mixed up with politics......god would not be pleased.

So, let us hope that the old guard dies off soon and the young people can progress more logically.

In Response

by: mitsos from: gr
July 30, 2012 13:23
Steve! i have never said that people with slavic origin are not living in Greece .i have done a very clear "analysis" (WHO IS WHO) on this matter,please read my post ,,,,July 28, 2012 14:19
In Response

by: Steve from: Canada
July 30, 2012 18:31
well then maybe you should run for government because according to the current/past governments....there is no Slavic people in greece....only Greeks.

You should come to Canada and see how we respect each and every culture here.
In Response

by: mitsos from: gr
July 30, 2012 21:15
Steve We greeks on national matters have only one common line. ofcourse this is very bad for our enemies most of them are pretending that do not understand or making the fool !!
READ MY POST July 28, 2012 14:19 TO SEE THE COMMON HELLENIC VIEW ABOUT SLAVS IN GREECE

by: Anonymous
July 31, 2012 02:13
New states and new ethnicities are born, and other ones die and disappear. Why does this matter so much to the Greeks? Isn't it something of an honor that Slavs would identify with the ancient name? Shouldn't they concern themselves more with Cyprus and recolonizing Constantinople?
In Response

by: Toni from: Resna
July 31, 2012 15:39
The Greeks have so much time on the their hands to ponder such petty issues because even the ones with jobs have ten weeks vacation a year, thanks to the other hard working nations of the Euro Zone!
In Response

by: mitsos from: gr
July 31, 2012 20:03
Greeks have 4 weeks vacation a year and not 10 neither take european money without paying interest However I can understand the reasoning of persons ,who their ancestors in antiquity were living in the caves eating acorns to regard the ancient hellenic historical heritage as "petty issues"
In Response

by: Darko from: Tuzi
August 01, 2012 13:27
Mitsos,

At least the acorn eating cave dwellers aren't the ones dragging down the entire EU economy!

It apprears you have PLENTY of time to read/respond in this forum: I'm guessing that you are either unemployed or underemployed? Try emmigrating to a country with real hard workering people with real ethics and moral convictions. Perhaps one with acorn eating cave dwellers?
In Response

by: mitsos from: gr
August 01, 2012 14:35
The real image of Greece is not the image you have been told i understand your embarrassment with the acorns,i also understand why many europeans love greeks and many hate us...i attach a quote from philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche " as a response to your tragedy ..."Proven in every period of its development, the western European culture has tried to rid himself of the Greeks. This work is imbued with deep disappointment, because whatever we create, seemingly original and worthy of admiration, lose color and life in comparison with the Greek mode, came to resemble a cheap copy, a caricature.
So again and again soaked in a rage erupts hatred against the Greeks, against this small and arrogant nation, who had the nerve to call it barbaric whatever that had not been established in its territory ...
None of the recurrent enemies had the fortune to discover the hemlock, which could forever be rid of them. All poisons of envy, of hubris, hatred, have been insufficient to disturb the great beauty.
Thus, people continue to feel shame and fear of the Greeks. Of course, occasionally, someone appears to recognize intact truth, truth which teaches that the Greeks are the charioteers of any upcoming culture and almost always as the chariots and horses of the upcoming cultures is very low quality compared to the charioteer, who eventually work out driving his chariot into the abyss, which are beyond the Achilles 'Leap.....'Friedrich Nietzsche "The Birth of Tragedy" (1872),!!
In Response

by: Czelo from: Cetinje
August 01, 2012 22:35
Mitsos,

Your copy/paste skills are extraordinary, probably cultivated during your unemployment. You might want to include that on your resume!

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