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U.S. Dismisses Abkhazian Elections As Illegitimate

The U.S. has not recognized Aleksandr Ankvab as the newly elected president of Abkhazia.

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August 29, 2011

The United States has dismissed elections in Georgia's breakaway region of Abkhazia as illegitimate.

The AFP news agency quoted State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland on August 29 as saying that the United States "does not recognize the legitimacy or the results of the August 26 so-called elections in the Abkhazia region of Georgia."

In the poll on at the weekend, which was widely seen as flawed, Abkhazia elected Aleksandr Ankvab -- a top politician who advocates firm ties with Russia -- as the new president of the rebel Georgian region.

Abkhazia broke away from Georgia after a devastating civil war in the 1990s. But its independence claim has only been recognized by Russia and a handful of far-flung states following Moscow's 2008 war with Georgia.

Compiled from agency reports

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Comment Sorting

Comments

by: Jack from: US

August 30, 2011 01:05

surely US government would not accept free and fair elections which Abkhaz people enjoyed. Instead US government accepts sham elections in "republic of Georgia" where mini-dictator Sakaashvilli was elected with something like 98% of votes, eclipsed only by late Saddam Hussein who was last elected with 99.8% of votes. US government does not shy openly siding with dictatorships against democratic and free states. Luckily, Abkhaz people were able to defend their freedom and it is not up to US government clowns to deny them freedom.

In Response

by: JC from: US

August 30, 2011 12:29

Jack,

Check your facts. In the 2008 presidential elections, Saakashvili won 53% of the vote. He is not a mini-dictator. While Georgia has some major issues in its political maturity, it is not a dictatorship a la Saddam Hussein or Qaddafi. The problem in Georgia is that there is no alternative to Saakashvili and his party as the opposition is based upon personalities more interested in self-aggrandizement than offering credible alternative platforms for Georgia's many issues.
As for the Abkhaz elections, they do present some complexities for both Georgia and the U.S. While they cannot be considered completely free/fair as the 200,000 plus IDPs are disenfranchised, they do represent a modicum of political will by Abkhazians (Abkhaz, Armenians, Russian, Mingrelians (those who actually vote)). The question for the Abkhazian polity is: will it allow an ethnic Armenian or Gali Mingrelian to hold political office? Thus far, it seems the answer is no. When the answer becomes yes, then we talk about democracy in Abkhazia.

In Response

by: Konstantin from: Los Angeles

September 08, 2011 08:00

Much more so, JC from US! Population of Abkhazia was cleansed-out
by genocide, organized since 1954-56 by Russians:
Only part of Gali returned there since 1993;
Ochamchiri elected Kantaria - he was cleansed-out along
with other real Ochamchiri-Lasica people since 1993;
Svans in Kodory and other areas also cleansed since 1993;
Suhumi and Suhumi region also cleansed-out since 1993;
Only Gudauta region now "Abkhazians" - also cleansed since 1993,
even there only KGB, Spetcnaz, GRU, Russians, Cossacks, Urartu,
Adyga (names-"pss"), Pechenega (names-"ba") and other invaders
with Quislings (previous invaders by Lenin) are now there!

Since 1954-56 pact (to resurect colonial empires) such rediculous
"genuin nation" forged by Russians with help of Russian proxies in
London!

Are 40,000 invaders representative of, mostly expelled from
"Abkhazia", 800, 000?
Even the number of murdered by invaders, 40, 000 Georgians,
would match the 40,000 voting "Psy"-invaders!

In Response

by: Rick from: USA

August 30, 2011 14:42

You hit the nail on the head Jack! The US only sees its own puppet governments as fair and free elections. Its a good thing no one longer cares what the US opinion is anymore. The US is nothing more than a global bully that wants to tell everyone else what to do and how to do it. We will destroy ourselves within 3-5 years from greed and fraud. No worries!

In Response

by: Anita from: Hague

August 30, 2011 16:29

U.S. Congress celebrates Independence Day of Nagorno-Karabakh (check google) but when it comes to Abkhazia their policy changes. Again refugees: Do you mean those who fought against Abkhazia on the Georgian side? Or do you mean those who were resettled to Abkhazia after the end of the Great Caucasian War in 1864 and especially in Stalin & Beria time in order to assimilate Abkhaz population? Refugees is always a big problem and it was not Abkhazia who bare responsibility for them - it is Georgia that started the war and created huge humanitarian catastrophy. Also you should not forget that it was Abkhazia which unilaterally decided to open the gates for the (largely Mingrelian) refugees to return to Abkhazia from Georgia in 1999. Also, when it comes to the fate of refugees and their right to return home, what is to be said of those Abkhazian descendants (over 300,000) of those more or less forced to leave Abkhazia, when it was populated virtually exclusively by Abkhazians, in 1864?

How many refugees in Azerbaijan? How many of them back to Nagorno-Karabakh? Zero. Why American policy support independence of Nagorno-Karabakh but not Abkhazia?

Both must be supported!

In Response

by: Andrew from: Auckland

August 31, 2011 07:29

Actually Anita, it was separatists who started the killing, when they murdered dozens of Georgian students at Sokhumi university in 1989, when they murdered Vova Wekua, a noted Abkhaz intellectual who demolished the propaganda of Ardzinba and called for reconciliation between Apsua Abkhazians and Georgian Abkhazians.

The humanitarian catastrophe was mainly the result of war crimes comitted by the separatists, though neither side was blameless in that regard, and the disgusting massacres, rapes, and ethnic cleansing done by the separatists are the reason that they will never receive support from civilized countries.

Also note that the UN, OSCE, and EU, all demand that the 200,000+ IDP's be returned to their homes before any elections in Abkhazia be deemed legitimate.

In Response

by: Andrew from: Auckland

August 31, 2011 07:34

Also Anita, you go on about the deportation, by Russia, of Muslim Apsua Abkhaz in 1864, do you also condemn the Ottoman deportation of Christian Georgian Abkhazians in the 16th to 18th centuries?

Abkhazia has always been multi-ethnic, both Apsua Abkhazians and Georgian Abkhazians have lived there for pretty much all of recorded history.

Ancient Greek & Roman scholars describe Dioscuras/Sokhumi as a Svan city (Svans being a Georgian ethnicity), the oldest Churches and fortresses in Abkhazia being of Georgian design, with Georgian inscriptions, so to say Georgians never lived there is pathetic, just as pathetic as saying Apsua never lived there in antiquity.

In Response

by: David from: Los Angeles

September 07, 2011 14:36

Mr. Andrew the Georgian from New Zealand is clearly lying about the "facts" he presents, or he has been reading propaganda printed in Tiflis. This alphabet was not a "Georgian" alphabet, first of all. Second, Georgians NEVER lived above Transcaucasus ever until the end of the 19th to the beginning of the 20th century, when they flooded Abkhazia and other parts of the region that were seized by Russian imperialist troops whom they themselves helped murder, loot, rape, and expel from the region. Third, Abkhazians were not forced to leave due to religion, and most of them have never been Muslims. In fact, over 75-80% of them are Christians or have no religion. Finally, Georgians were the ones to start the war between Abkhazia and Georgia in the late 20th century, not Abkhaz "separatists". It's unfortunate that someone like this is allowed to rant and rave on forums online without being reprimanded about his untruths. Sorry, Andrew. You need to revisit what you know about this region. I suspect you are in fact a Georgian proxy working to dispel truth on these sites. It's hard to believe anything else. And no matter what you whine about, it's not going to be taken seriously. Sorry.

In Response

by: Eugenio

September 07, 2011 17:53

@David: Please provide some souces besides the official Abkhaz website for your claims. Others provide links, you offer nothing. So you are not to be taken seriously.

In Response

by: Andrew from: Auckland

September 09, 2011 07:22

David, you are a liar.

"The Zygii people lived in the area in antiquity. From the 6th to the 11th centuries, the area successively belonged to the Georgian kingdoms of Egrisi and Abkhazia who built a dozen churches within the city boundaries. From the 11th to the 15 century it was a part of Georgian Kingdom. The Christian settlements along the coast were destroyed by the invading Gokturks, Khazars, and other nomadic empires whose control of the region was slight. The northern wall of an 11th-century Byzantinesque basilica still stands in the district of Loo.

From the 15th century onward, the area, known as Ubykhia was part of historical Circassia, and was controlled by the native people of the local mountaineer clans of the north-west Caucasus, nominally under the sovereignty of the Ottoman Empire, which was their principal trading partner in the Muslim world. The coastline was ceded to Russia in 1829 as a result of a Caucasian War and Russo-Turkish War, 1828-1829."

http://www.intermarkrelocation.ru/maprussia/13/

And the Abkhaz were predominantly Muslim under the Ottoman rule of the 16th, that is the reason they were deported.

"Among those affected by Russia’s expansionist policies were Muslim Abkhaz as well. Living along Georgia’s Black Sea coast in the south Caucasus, Abkhaz, related to the Circassians by language but historically and culturally closely linked to Georgians living on the same land, had been Islamized after the Ottomans conquered western Georgia in the 16th century. Many Abkhaz deported from Abkhazia to the Ottoman Empire found shelter in Ajara, another Georgian province where a mainly Muslim Georgian population lived by then."

http://jamestownfoundation.blogspot.com/2010/03/should-georgia-recognize-circassian.html

Oh, and by the way my geographically challenged friend, Abkhazia is part of the south Caucasus, not the north.

In Response

by: Andrew from: Auckland

September 09, 2011 07:31

ISLAM IN ABKHAZIA
Prior to the mid-eighteenth century, Islam co-existed in Abkhazia with Christian and local pagan beliefs. With the establishment of Ottoman rule, however, the Turks attempted to weaken Christianityís position in the region, and they accordingly set about demolishing Abkhaziaís churches and chapels.
60
Islam became more widespread as a result, at least until the muhajiroba
of the 1860s when many Muslims were driven out of Abkhazia into Turkey by Russian imperial authorities.
Despite the muhajiroba, observers at the time observed few signs of tension between the religious communities in Abkhazia. Christian missionaries reported that most Muslim Abkhaz practiced Islamic rites and observed Islamic celebrations, including fasting during the month of Ramadan and the celebration of the qurban. They would also invite mullahs to preside over
burial ceremonies. But most embraced various Christian traditions as well, including the celebration of Christmas and Easter and commemoration of the holy days of the Virgin Mary and Saint George.
According to reports by the Society for the Restoration of Orthodox Christianity in the Caucasus, efforts to propagate Islam in Abkhazia increased in the late nineteenth century.
At the time, however, many Muslims were also converting to Christianity. According to data gath ered by the Society, between 1866 and 1902 a total of 21,336 Muslim Abkhaz became Christian.
Moreover, the missionaries complained that marriages between Christians and Muslims were common, even more so in Abkhazia than in other parts of the Caucasus. As a result, they argued that the most salient cleavage for the Abkhaz was social status, not religion.

There was also little evidence during the Soviet period of religiosity among the Abkhaz.
As Nestor Lakoba, the Communist Party first secretary of the autonomous republic of Abkhazia in the 1920s and 1930s, remarked, ìReligion for the Abkhazian is meaningless. The Abkhaz by his nature and historically is an atheist and nonbeliever. The ongoing struggle over sovereignty between the Abkhaz and Tbilisi make it impossible to study the religious situation in the region today. In the last few years, ties to Muslim communities in the North Caucasus, as well as the return of the descendants of the muhajirs
from Turkey, appear to have led to a modest increase in the role of Islam among the Abkhaz.
Nevertheless, there is little evidence of the presence of Islamist extremists in the region. Again, however, we should reiterate that it is very difficult to confirm this in the absence of field research.

http://iseees.berkeley.edu/bps/publications/2004_04-sani.pdf

In Response

by: David from: Los Angeles

September 12, 2011 21:46

@Eugenio, it's fair to say that you are not privy to very accessible sources on this region, otherwise these details that I wrote about would not be questioned by your good self.

@Andrew the Georgian: that is again a straight lie. The Abkhaz and other North Caucasians were not deported because of "religious reasons". Where do you find this garbage from? The "facts" you wrote about are obviously biased. Loo, by the way, is an ancient Abazin surname and a royal one at that. The Zygii are the ancestors of modern day Circassians and Abkhazians. I'm not quite sure where the Georgian connection comes into day. During the Middle Ages, Georgia was never a force to reckon with in the region. I am appalled at your sources. Even more appalled that you continue to parrot the same trash over and over without shame here.
And you quoted Jamestown Foundation on top of that, the biggest sin of that. Do you realize what the aim of this group is? Try finding more neutral sources, son.

This part especially made me laugh out loud: "historically and culturally closely linked to Georgians living on the same land, had been Islamized after the Ottomans conquered western Georgia in the 16th century."

They are "closely linked", really? Do yourself a favor, google Georgians based on their customs and costumes alone prior to 1700. In addition, Google the Islamic invasion of the region that moved into Anatolia and Europe during that period and you tell me if this trash still holds up for you. Any literate person can see that this information you posted is easily debatable then. Tsk tsk....

I think the more troubling point here is this: why do you hate Muslims, Andrew?

In Response

by: Andrew from: Auckland

September 18, 2011 10:57

Lets see David, I know you are unable to offer any evidence except your own opinions, but come on. Abkhaz were almost entirely Muslim under Ottoman rule, and their descendants remain so to this day in Turkey.

Georgia was a well known and powerful medieval state, of which Abkhazia was a province, also historical fact. I know you have little or no knowledge of history, but don't make a fool of yourself.

Georgia was the main power in the region for much of the medieval period, and Abkhazia was one of its provinces, where Georgian was the language of culture and trade and law.

Under David the Builder and his descendant Queen Tamara Georgia made Georgia the most powerful Christian country in the east after Byzantium.

If you can actually read, try reading these articles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Georgia_(country)#Medieval_Georgia

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/230186/Georgia/44321/Medieval-Georgia

As for your rather strange claims that the Abkhaz diaspora in Turkey is Christian, sorry no they are not, they are exclusively Muslim, and many Abkhaz in Turkey were horrified and shocked to learn that Abkhaz that remained were now Christians. In fact many Abkhaz in the diaspora wanted to sever ties with the separatist administration in Sokhumi at what they considered a betrayal of Abkhaz traditions.

Now, as for Georgia being "muslim" until the 19th century, more rubbish, please explain the Georgian churches which date from the 4th century right through the medieval period up to the present day, and that Georgia is the 2nd oldest Christian country after Armenia?

There is no evidence that at any time Georgia was "predominantly Muslim" as you claim, and all documentary evidence points to the opposite, that explains the constant wars between Georgia and the Turkish and Persian empires, along with the wars against Islamic Mongols such as Tamerlane.

Face it David, you are unable to make a coherent argument, and your claims about Georgia are not backed up by historical facts.

Of course, your inability to acknowledge the success of the Georgian Queen Tamara the great might stem from the traditional Abkhaz sexism and misogynistic behavior towards women.

by: David

September 01, 2011 14:35

It's always funny to watch countries like the US, with its undemocratic electoral college and flawed 2000 Florida election, pontificating about the merits of democracy in foreign countries. Not to mention how much "democracy" the US has brought to countries like Iraq and Afghanistan!

It is also funny to watch representatives of colonialist states like the US and New Zealand, which perpetrated unspeakable atrocities against the indigenous inhabitants of the territories they colonized, pontificating about alleged atrocities committed by other nations.

The pot calling the kettle black is too mild a proverb to use in this context!

In Response

by: Andrew from: Auckland

September 03, 2011 06:48

Being representative of the indigenous population, you really are an idiot David.

Apsua committed the overwhelming majority of the atrocities that occurred during the war in Abkhazia, this was documented by the UN, OSCE, and organisations like Memorial, Helsinki Group, and HRW.

And your outright lies about the history of the region show you up to be a dishonorable and corrupt little chap.

In Response

by: David from: Los Angeles

September 12, 2011 21:47

I am not the initial David who posted the comment you wrote about, but I do have to say that your insults and lies are getting tiring. We all know who started these conflicts and it was not the Abkhazians. Try getting your head out of the ground for once, kiddo.

In Response

by: Andrew from: Auckland

September 18, 2011 11:02

Thats funny, the UN, OSCE, etc firmly blame Apsua extremists for the war in the 90's, and for the overwhelming majority of the crimes against humanity, particularly ethnic cleansing and massacres in Gaudata, Gagra, Sokhumi etc.

Anyone can see where your head is stuck child.

by: Misha from: NY

September 02, 2011 04:28

And who is the U.S. here?? What say do they have?? None whatsoever...U.S. has their oily hands in Libya now Afghanistan n wherever else they can bs their way in...Being a US citizen plenty of ppl like me are simply sick of our Illegitamate govt!

In Response

by: Rastislav from: London

September 02, 2011 14:44

Misha, why these elections hsoudl be approved ? 40 000 Mengrelians in Gali had no right to vote. In 150 000 large Abkhazia it is a significant population

In Response

by: Andrew from: Auckland

September 06, 2011 06:29

Good point Rastislav, and there are also the 200,000+ refugees who were driven from their homes by separatists who also should have a right to vote as per various UN resolutions.

Once they all are able to vote, then you can call Abkhazia a democracy.

by: misha from: NY

September 02, 2011 19:58

YOU MISSED THE POINT! Legitamate or NOT...Who is the U.S. to say what is rite n wrong when they exploit every poor country set up puppet dictators support crooked regimes? There's a saying ur either a good cop or bad cop no in the middle... U.S. is rite on this line so disregard anythng they say...The U.S.= MOST ILLEGITIMATE GOVT. !!!

In Response

by: JMHPen from: Tbilisi

September 03, 2011 14:32

Misha, last I checked, President Obama was elected in a fair and open election. Your charge that the U.S. has an illegitimate government is shot through with emotion, but little reason. The U.S. is not a perfect country--there is none. But it does stand up against tyranny, most recently against Gaddafi. And it does speak out against violations of human rights, like those taking place in Syria. And throughout the Cold War, it stood against the tyranny of the USSR. It was the first country to overthrow the rule of Kings and to claim that every person is equal before the law. Imperfect--yes, illegitimate--by no stretch of your imagination.

by: eric d from: IF Idaho USA

September 06, 2011 22:11

The U.S., like many other countries, is quite capable of pointing out everbody else's faults... And also quite blind to its own. (Which is also true, as we see, of Georgians, Abkhaz, Ossetes etc.). So American criticism of fraudulent elections in Belarus, Abhkhazia, etc. can probably be trusted. But American criticism of Bush v Gore can't... American criticism of Russia's North Caucasus policy & Abkhazia's treatement of Georgian IDPs can be trusted. American press coverage of US military involvement in Afghanistan & Pakistan can't... But, obviously, there's another side to the Georgian/Abkhaz story (or maybe several other sides..) which don't get told in US press (& probabaly not on Abkhaz websites, either...). So who do you believe? Nobody. And everybody. (Except when they're talking about themselves...)

But just because the US rightly criticizes the Belraussian KGB or the Abkhaz authorities on mistreatment & torture of political prisoners, refugees, etc, doesn't mean US detainee policy in Guantanamo & Bagram isn't (almost...) just as bad. And, of course, all "Western" countries (& some "Eastern" ones, too) have engaged in extermination & ethnic cleansing of indigenous ("native") populations (including the indigenous population of the North American continent...). Which continues to this day, esp. in Brazil etc. But previous US crimes (& even present ones) don't mean that the US can't do something right, occasionally. Like criticizing fraudulent elections in the North Caucasus, supporting Georgian independence against Russia, & supporting the civil & human rights of displaced people & refugees (even if that support is self-serving & motivated by politicval expediency etc.).

Besides, "past history" (between Georgians & Abkhaz, for example) really only matters insofar as it affects how Georgians & Abkhaz treaty each other now & shouldnt be used as justification for working up more ethnic hatreds & spreading more ethnic conflict & tribal warfare in the North Caucasus. Which is the last thing anybody (except Russia) needs...

What's the moral of the story? All countries, ethnicities, tribes etc. commit crimes. And none are absolutely self-righteous & right, all the time. The best 'we" can do is pick & choose between the lesser of evils. (like the US is a lesser evil than Russia, for example. Most of the time...) So, for example, Abkhaz independence is a good thing... Unless it means deportation & persectution of Georgians. (And vice versa...) And unless it means Russia will use Abkhazia as a staging-ground for another attack on Georgia. Which, I'm guessing, is just what the Russians will do...

In Response

by: Sally from: NYC

September 12, 2011 21:48

Abkhazia deserves its freedom from prejudice, violence, oppression, and neo-nationalism just as Georgia and any other nation state in the world does. Period.

In Response

by: Andrew from: Auckland

September 18, 2011 10:12

Except that the largest ethnic group (Georgians were 47% of the pre war population) suffered ethnic cleansing at the hands of the Apsu (17% of the pre war population) due to the intervention of the Russian state.

Racist war crimes by the separatists should not be rewarded.